petertenthije
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

KLM Flirts With Air France

Sat Sep 08, 2001 6:57 pm

According to the dutch newspaper "De Telegraaf" KLM is flirting with Air France. This rumour leaked out from wel-informed sources near the KLM-management.

If KLM allies itself with the AF-group (amongst others AF, CSA and AZ), than that would give one of the largest aviation-alliances in the world. Especcially in Europe. Also because of the airports of Amsterdam, Parijs, Milaan and Rome. All these airports are located in densely populated parts of Europe.

The management responded in the usual way by stating they were looking at several possibilities, but that negotiations hadn't started (yet?).

According to the newspaper a alliance between KLM and the AF-group (including CSA and Alitalia) won't be objected to by the anti-trust agencies. The airlines are geographicly too spread out.

If NorthWest wants to follow KLM into the alliance, and ally itself with Delta airlines is unclear. It is also unclear if that will be allowed by the anti-trust agencies.

Uptilnow KLM's CEO, Leo van Wijk, insisted on a full merger, to get the most out of a alliance. At the last shareholders meeting he stated that it would now probably be more wise to start thinking of other approaches. Perhaps a commercial and strategic coorperation as the other alliances do?


The full article (Dutch only)
http://krant.telegraaf.nl/krant/vandaag/teksten/fin.klm.air.france.europa.html


Greetz
Peter ten Thije
Petertenthije@yahoo.com
Attamottamotta!
 
airmale
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sat Sep 08, 2001 9:24 pm

Surprising, because I worked for AF in Karachi till a few months back and more than once I heard their French engineer say that they did not want KLM to help them out in any way, this was when AF were preparing to terminate their engineering contract with Gulf Air as GF handled two of their cargo flights at KHI every week, so KLM was the next best option being European and all and that KLM still have ground handling facilites at KHI despite having quit the market in 2000, but according to teh engineeer the disliking went way beyond seeking their help and was more like rivalry and it being a disgrace to AF to seek their help.
.....up there with the best!
 
airblue
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sat Sep 08, 2001 9:45 pm

Two years ago when KL and AZ were partner it was rumored that they were looking to go with AF.
Than AZ-KLM partnership was broken and both AZ and KL stayed in no alliance till when AZ decided to join Skyteam.
KL was very close to BA, but nothing happened. Now again seem KLM are talking with AF.

I think it will be difficult that KL joining Skyteam, cause otherwise NW losing its only European partner.
 
Guest

RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:40 pm


This would be great for Skyteam I think. They could benefit a lot from KLM.
 
teva
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 12:29 am

I was working for Air Littoral at the time KLM was the biggest shareoleder.
Before that time , I thought KLM was a very well managed airline.
But I have seen allthe mistakes made with Air Littoral.
As a result, I lost my job.
After that, I observed all the attemps made by KLM to find partners. BA, Allitallia, ... And still no result!!!
Today, AF is one the most profitable major carrier in Europe (after being almots dead in the early 90s). I do not want this to change. Then, I hope it is just a rumor, and that nothing will happen.
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
deltairlines
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 12:38 am

I hope KLM joins SkyTeam. If they join, it will even more solidify SkyTeam as the No. 1 alliance across the Atlantic.

Jeff
 
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lindy field
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 12:58 am

KLM has to fit in to some alliance. Given that Star with Lufthansa, SAS, and Austrian already dominates northern Europe, it is probably better that KLM tries to find a way into Skyteam or Oneworld. I don't think the Wings Alliance has much of a future. Northwest will be allowed into some other alliance, maybe Skyteam with KLM; it would improve Skyteam's position in Asia! There just aren't enough major airlines for four or five major alliances.
 
Guest

RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 2:31 am

Skyteam got Delta in the US. So if KLM wants to bring Northwest to Skyteam, DL and NW had to get settled first.
 
cba
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 4:36 am

If KLM decides to partner with Air France and join Skyteam, this would most likely result in Skyteam and Wings consolidating into one mega alliance. Just imagine that. They would be unbeatable, with US fortresses at IAH, ATL, and DTW. European fortress at CDG, AMS, and FCO/MXP. This would also bring MAS and Eva Air into the picture, giving them a stronghold in Asia.
 
0A340
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:04 am

If KLM decides to partner with Air France and join Skyteam, this would most likely result in Skyteam and Wings consolidating into one mega alliance. Just imagine that. They would be unbeatable, with US fortresses at IAH, ATL, and DTW. European fortress at CDG, AMS, and FCO/MXP. This would also bring MAS and Eva Air into the picture, giving them a stronghold in Asia.


IAH (Houston Bush) is Continental's stronghold, not Northwest's. Detroit, Minneapolis, and Memphis are Northwest's.
Since CO is concerned, this is not going to be easy. They have a virtual-merger agreement, and a controlling say in NWA. Letting NWA go will leave CO naked, the largest US carrier without a serious alliance.
 
cba
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:52 am

Just for your info, CO is part of the Wings alliance, so if Wings and Skyteam consolidated, CO would be part of the deal along with NW. NW and CO are a packadge deal, you can't just get one. NW, CO and DL combined in an alliance would capture 40%+ of the US market share.
 
jessman
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RE: KLM Flirts With Air France

Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:09 am

All Right all we're playing the slippery slope game. Don't forget DL is a mileage partner with UA, but nothing else.
DL has a codeshare with SAA, but SAA is not a part of the alliance. Same with AF/CO. AF/KL could have a partnership without it affecting Skyteam at all.
That being said let's put some history perspective into this, DL wanted a domestic codeshare with UA, but that did not sit well with the government, hence the mileage agreement. I doubt such an agreement would work between DL/NW/CO either. On the other hand since AA bought TW who knows.
NW would be a good partner for DL for asia, god knows skyteam needs an asian presence.