captjetblast
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:59 am

Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:23 am

I think cockpits should be armored and locked during the whole flight.
Pilots should be told not to open the door, even if one of the stewardesses has a knife around her neck.
In such a situation, pilots should contact ground for help and land inmediately, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF THE CREW AND PAX behind the locked door!
I know it sounds easy to say but hard to commit, but now we know that a commercial flight can be easily converted to a missile.
Hope it helps.

 
Gib
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:01 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:25 am

Agree totally!!
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:40 am

Along with this I think we should look at using the technology that we have. Computers can be programmed to land a plane. Perhaps part of flight planning should be preprogramming computers to land at various en-route airports. Should this cockpit door be breached the captain would be able to hit a "panic button" of sorts causing a lock-out of controls and for the computer to take over and land the plane at one of the checkpoints along with transmitting warnings that the planes security has been compromised.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:56 am

That's just like saying that we should make every plane just like the black boxes or even make every plane crash-proof.

If a bank robber can crack a safe, why couldn't they crack a lock on the cockpit door?

What do you propose to stop bullets? 4 inch steel plate around the cockpit?
 
Guest

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 1:02 am

Yes yes yes I completely agree that planes should be fitted with the ONE BUTTON emergency switch that will automatically put the plane down at an airport.

They HAVE TO do something like this. The have to because they made it hard to smuggle bombs on board so unless this is nipped in the bud THIS will be the trend to use airliners as bombs.


It should have already been done figuring that every plane anywheres near you is already a danger when it is in the air. Too much fuel danger.

If they can make the plane fly itself they can figure out a way for it to do this. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN INTERNAL SETTING THAT COULD NOT BE EFFECTED BY SABOTAGING THE FLIGHT EQUIPMENT ONBOARD.

Just think how having that type of technology wouldve already made this impossible.

THE Emergency route could be by computer prefigured for each flight depending on ROUTE.. So a flight from BOS that was hijacked would land at (fill in the blank) airport and would once that ONE BUTTON was pushed (behind glass ofcourse) it would AUTOMATICALLY ping out to the contol towers that the plane was in trouble and was making an emergency landing.


WITH THAT TIME SEQUENCE it is highly likely that the airport would time to clear the runways and what I fear may be a future for air terrorism would be totally avoided and done.


IT is not that hard to do. It cant be. Depending on route a preplanned emegency programming that once hit could not be revoked.

They could also make it so the planes control went dead to human commanding once the alarm was triggered.


There wouldnt be a problem then.


This isnt far fetched.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 1:26 am

I think that ANY plane that will render its controls null when someone pushes a button is a BAD idea.

This will cause more problems than it will solve.
Especially if there is already a problem with the guidance computer.
 
Guest

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:48 am

OK

Valid argument point about the ON PLANE button being a bad idea. Although how could it be since the plane would be just forced to land?

But Ok I see the point.



HOW about AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL being able to push a button to land a plane if it fails to repeatedly radio to the tower it is ok?

That would require satellite technology.


It would be a bit Star Wars like when the Millenium falcon was brought down by tractor beam.


But its a thought.


GROUND Controls for bringing down a plane that doesnt repeatedly respond.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:53 am

The only way to prevent people from entering the cockpit in flight is not having a door between the cockpit and the cabin and having the wall made of thick steel.
This means of course that another way into the cockpit must be found for the pilots, probably doors on the outside of the plane.
Retrofitting this would be nearly impossible at the very least.
I wish I were flying
 
Jaspike
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:56 am

It was on TV this morning.
Planes can't be taken over if people can't get in the cockpits to fly/crash the plane.
 
learpilot
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 11:07 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:58 am

I don't know about armored, but the president of the airline pilots assn. is calling for armed pilots in the cockpit.

www.airlinepilots.com
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
markk
Posts: 187
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:58 am


I disagree about the button being a bad idea. Granted that computers landing the plane may not be a safe as a real person. But, I would think it would be a better option than what happened yesterday.. Those people had ZERO chance. With a button and computers landing at least their chances go up..
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:15 am

Pilots and maybe the lead FA should be trained in the use of firearms and ARMED with at least a 9mm pistol.

If the hijackers know that they'll face firepower when they enter the cockpit, maybe they'll think twice.
 
helje
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 2:36 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:34 am

If so, the hijackers wouldn't have to care about bringing weapons on board. There would already be one or several. I think that idea would make things easier to hijackers. My vote goes to the automated landing-thing and a bulletproof door into the cockpit.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Air Marshalls/Sherrifs?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:39 am

Would it be a good idea to have 4 or 5 Air Sheerifs on each flight with guns?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:42 am

Sometimes the crew need to come out of the cockpit for a pee, to check for ice before departure, to stretch their legs, and a variety of other reasons.
Iain
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Air Marshalls/Sherrifs?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:44 am


I would feel comfortable with 4 or 5 armed people.. But, how practical is that?? Think of how many domestic flights occur each day. Not to mention you are taking 4 or 5 rev seats.. Granted this is not about $$. BUT, to the airlines to some extent it is. Unless the gov is going to foot the bill. Automated landing and alerting takes out the human element. If this plan were actually realized what would the headlines read today?? Maybe 4 planes at a standoff on the ground. Perhaps 1 of the four crashes during landing sequence because the computer screwed up. Certainly a lot better scenario than what we are reading about today.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:05 am

Markk & Helje,
The pilots were not able to communicate with ATC to inform that they had been hijacked. What gives you the idea that they would have the time to push the button? The transponder has an emergency setting, also. This was not set.

You say that that would have prevented this disaster. Ok, let's say it would. How many people would die on Airliners that the computer takes over (See the AF A320 movies) with incorrect data? You are not looking at the whole picture. It may have avoided this disaster, but it would cause many more.
What's to prevent a terrorist from splicing into the electrical cables on the plane and taking control from there?

Also, how do you make something bulletproof? Typical answers?
Kevlar. Unfortunatly, Kevlar can be cut by a KNIFE or scissors.
Steel? Oh yeah! 4 inches of steel between the cockpit and the cabin would be a good idea. That way, when the button fails and the terrorists get in the cockpit, they have the worlds biggest shotgun slug sitting between them and the passengers. A steel plate would have ripped right through the WTC undamaged and would have emerged on the other side, falling 80 stories on other buildings or people.
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2822
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:09 am

Armed crew members or air marshalls.

That is a more practical solution.

 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6445
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:11 am

No, in worst case we will have to do the same as El-Al has done for decades: Armed security guards spread among the pax.

But first of all the guilty parties and their followers must be identified, and they shall all have to pay for this tragedy in such a way that any future group planning a similar thing will know in advance that the result would be their own elimination.

The other way around - to make all aspects of society, on the ground, in the air, and on the sea, totally safe to terrorism, that would be sort of self chosen "prison" for all of us. We can't accept that.

If only terror in the air becomes too difficult, then terror would just take other forms - we all know car bombs, human bombs, and I can't find more violent terrestrial terror weapons right now, but sure the terrorists can.

Well, let me mention SAM's. And who knows if the future may spell nuke?

This tragedy was a tragedy for aviation. But it was first of all a tragedy on the ground in NYC. Aviation was only a chosen tool for the terror. In any future case another tool will be chosen.

The world must now agree totally upon eliminating terrorism. Should there be a few countries left on this planet which do not obey to that code under international control, then at first they must be totally isolated. Any ship or plane leaving such a country shall be downed. Should such a situation last for any extended time, then the powers of these countries must be eliminated and new powers put in as was the case in Japan and Germany following WWII.

We only have one planet. There shall be room for all of us without having to live in a self chosen shelter or prison.

Politics are too complicated to do this tomorrow. But that should be the short term goal of this planet. Not within centuries or decades, but years!

Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:25 am


I would think that button being pushed at the instant of trouble would not be that hard to accomplish. Now of course this is assuming that the flight crew didn't simply let the hijackers in. F/A knocks on door and pop the door opens.. This should probably be reviewed.

I agree that auto-landing introduces some new problems, but do you think those problems would be as severe as yesterday?? I grant you that losing an aircraft because someone pushed the button and the computer was improperly programmed would be horrific. No doubt there. Perhaps a disengage code sent from the ground once the aircraft was determined not to be a threat..

I simpy introduced this option as a "think out of the box" solution. Airport security can only be so good. Measures to prevent such individuals from boarding can only be so good. Weapons on board with trained personel? Probably not practical. In panic situations people often miss their target and that would be fairly catastrophic if the bullet hit a window.
 
flight152
Posts: 3221
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:40 am

People, the pilots need to open the door sometimes like bathroom or food breaks.
 
jumbojettim
Posts: 159
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:43 am

If you have the technology for an "emergency button," you might as well have pilotless aircraft.
Simple solution: as mentioned have a bullet proof door that cannot be kicked down (however, not made of steel, perhaps plexiglass), with the capability of having release pins on the inside of the cockpit in the case of an emergency for the crew. I don't think that pilots armed with guns is the solution (possible stray bullets decompressing the a/c), but to have small knifes or hatchets underneath the seats in the cockpit.

Later
 
tguman
Posts: 380
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RE: Air Marshalls/Sherrifs?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:46 am

I think that pilots should stun guns or tranqulizer darts. That would certainly help the situation.
Life is a Mine Field.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6445
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:51 am

Just forget about that push botton autoland. It is far to complicated.

Automatic landing has to rely on uploaded data like weather and wind. Heavies would have to perform fuel dump first. And experts would be able to add a lot more prohibitive problems.

But the worst obstacle might not be technical at all. People living around airports chosen for emergency autolanding would protest and local politics would take charge and eliminate the idea. Or eliminate the airport.

80% of this thread has talked about "symptom elimination", not "healing".

An aspirin may do you good when you have pain from a broken leg. But it doesn't make you fit for the next Marathon Race. In the case the illness is "terrorism", not just "cockpit access". Medicine must be chosen accordingly.

Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Guest

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:03 am

>>I think that pilots should stun guns<<
ANy weapon in the cockpit can get into the wrong hands, also you have to think in a modern aircraft cockpit 20,000 volts flying around is not a good idea.
Iain
 
captjetblast
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:59 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:07 am

Don't you forget that the assholes couldn't take the plane using hard, big tools, inorder to unlock heavy armored doors. They could only take cutters, knifes, not strong enough to open an armored door.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:08 am

Markk,

As Preben said, El Al has had the air marshal program for some time and have been quite successful.

I agree that auto-landing introduces some new problems, but do you think those problems would be as severe as yesterday??

What makes you think yesterday could be avoided?
Build a better mouse trap and someone will build a better mouse. It's obvious that these people have studied a weakness and been opportunistic about exploiting it. The way the terrorists work is much like the AIDS virus.
 
User avatar
snn2003
Posts: 221
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:09 am

Seems just a wee bit overdramatic dont you think gentlemen???
One way, IAH-RTB please! No return ticket required.
 
captjetblast
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:59 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:12 am

But I find this unpracticeable. What about another plane having to land at the same rwy due to an emergency situation (engine failure, lack of fuel, another hijack)? I wouldn't let computers have to decide.
I agree with a "RED BUTTON", but it shouldn't include an autoland, What about circling over a pre-programmed inhabited area?
 
9A-CRO
Crew
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:13 am

PANIC BUTTON is a good idea, but not for autoland. the way it could be implemented is that computer had a map of "no-fly" zones and it would not allow the aircraft to fly into these zones, but only allow it to fly in areas without targets that stick out such as WTC towers
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
 
scaredflyer21
Posts: 334
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RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:18 am

I totally agree, today my orchestra teacher(knowing my interest in aviation) asked why this was not in effect. She freaked when I told her many commuter aircraft don't even have doors to the flight deck, but only a small curtain.
 
captjetblast
Posts: 288
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Any Pilot Reading This?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:21 am

Please, if any commercial pilot enteers this topic, it will be nice to hear your thought about panic button, emergency autoland, etc.
 
Allee
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:22 am

Good idea, but I don't think it's practical. All the hijacker has to do is take a hostage and threaten him/her until the door is opened.
 
captjetblast
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:59 am

No Guns Aboard, Please

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:23 am

Unfortunately, this would be a temptation to those assholes. They are trained in close combat, the could take the gun from the pilot and worse the situation.
Once it happend (some time ago) and FAA decided not to have any weapons a board.
 
Guest

Armored Cockpits Are Impossible.

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:24 am

According to aviation safety expert John Nance, armored cockpit doors are impossible, given the pressurized nature of commercial airliners. If one part of the aircraft experienced a depressurization, and there was no way for air to escape the pressurized portion, the plane would simply break up in-flight.

Even with the flimsy doors of today, Boeing 737 aircraft have pressure release valves on the cockpit doors, which according to some pilots, are easy in themselves to remove and break through.

Regards,

Chris Kilroy
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Air Marshalls/Sherrifs?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:26 am

Dear all!
I´m afraid there´s no quick "fix" to this problem, my suggestion
is that any individual that enter the plane,
airplane personell, cleaners, mecanics and passengers
shall pass trough a gate that "xray" them, this technology exist already but have not been put to use
because of privacy restriction. This pictures should be
gone through by "controllers" in a controll room that will
mix real pictures with random terrorist pictures to make
sure everyone stay alert every day. As boredom is one of every
security organization biggest treat...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:27 am

"If you have the technology for an "emergency button," you might as well have pilotless aircraft. "

I am not suggesting this for routine use at all. Just an option.. Or a variation there of. If the terrorist could not control the plane then they can't tell it where to go. I will admit this idea has flaws, but I do see possibilities with it. I think it gives you a better chance than a disabled flight crew with terrorist at the controls.

I do agree that this is throwing an aspirin at a broken leg. Obviously the source of the problem needs to be eliminated, not additional measures that can be counteracted. But, at the same time adding this or sky martial or stronger flight deck door or any combination of these things will add some level of deterance.. Maybe reduce the appeal of using an aircraft as a weapon.
 
captjetblast
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:59 am

Cameras, Gas

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:30 am

What about a camera? If pilots see something strange at the pax cabin, they push a button and anesthesic gas is sprayed at pax cabin and WC. Then everybody sleeps, pax and the stupid guys (except pilots, of course).
Safe landing, and FBI guys waiting on the runway.
 
Guest

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:34 am

"What about a camera? If pilots see something strange at the pax cabin, they push a button and anesthesic gas is sprayed at pax cabin and WC. Then everybody sleeps, pax and the stupid guys (except pilots, of course). Safe landing, and FBI guys waiting on the runway."

----------------------

Once again, it's impossible to create an air-tight seal between the pax cabin and cockpit. Read my post above for more info.

Chris
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:35 am

Bravo CaptJetBlast.
Very James Bond!

No it's not a good idea, or even practical but it's very fun to think about.
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:38 am

This is an interesting idea. Would you need presurization?? Pilots have pressure masks in the event of decompress. They use them all the time now when one takes a leak... Given the paper thin door though it would have to be one hell of a fast acting gas..
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:56 am

Ok this is stupid so I'm putting in another stupid idea:

The pilot pushes a button and the plane automatically heads for the nearest body of water. It then does a 70 degree engine on power dive into 2000 foot deep water.
It also exceeds the speed of sound, the sonic boom alerting all around to the hijacking in progress.

REALLY REALLY GOOD PLAN!
Almost as good as depressurizing the plane at cruise.


The attack that happened yesterday was NOT planned for. There is no precident for a Hijacker turning the hijacked plane into a flying bomb.

What we are doing here is called speculation. How do you know that the next move is not to use the "Auto Land / Self Destruct / Vent to outside air" to spread a biological weapon?
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:02 am

Autoland - Impractical?? At this point probably. In the future?? Who knows... Stupid. Well, that is your opinion.
 
calpilot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

RE: Knee Jerk Reaction.

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:10 am

Take some time here. We will get it it right, and it will be safe without knee jerk reactions.
 
Guest

My View On This Subject....

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:27 am

Hello all.

Well aviation has suffered a huge loss and I believe something should be done aobut it. Now having read everyone's posts, I do see some rather credible ideas, I also happen to know about the El Al "Flight Marshalls".

not long ago there was, to the best of my knowledge, a possibility of inflight agents, sort of an air police, to be aboard every U.S. flight.

However the idea did not fly due to the cost of supplying the agents themselves, and the costly wages that would have to be given to those who applied for the job.

Now that a distaster of this magnitude has happened, however, I think the U.S., or the world for that matter, would be greatly justified in putting perhaps two agents aboard every U.S. domestic and international flight.

If a hijacker were to take control of the aircraft, the agent, who would look like nothing more than an average passenger, would take action, parhaps with the use of a weapon.

This is a very good idea and I think it might save thousands of lives if implemented. The agents should also be knowledgeable in the field of aviation, i.e., they should be able to fly the aircraft if the crew is unable.

There is one other major risk to this, however. And that is the exchange of internal cabin gunfire. Firing any waepon in an aircraft poses the serious threat of decompression. A panicked and/or enraged terrorist, suddenly confronted with an armed agent, may open fire. Depending on the altitude, this might cause a decompression which might blow the aircraft apart or send the pax hurling through space.

That is not a good outcome. Therefore I think agents SHOULD be put on aircraft, but with some other form of weapon, yet just as effective.

On another note, I also believe the panic button is a great, fantasic idea, and probably even better than the inflight agent (police officer) idea. First off, some here complain that if they automate a "panic buttong" they might as well eliminate pilots altogether, which isn't a good idea since aviation isn't aviation without pilots.

However, current technology allows us to plan waypoints into a GPS, program the autopilot to fly each leg and turn at waypoints. A turn of the ILS nagivation know and you can hit "autoland" and the plane lands by itself.

IF we've come that far surely we can rpogram the plane to pick up the ILS signal from the aiport without pilot aid in a terrorist situation.

I am almost completely certain that an automated panic button would not replace the pilots is regularly scheduled commercial flights. And if ti did, only for a short while. Why? Because a human being has the ability to reason and that in itself can saved lives. A terrorist situation is different and I will get to that in a moment. When aircraft systems fail, the human mind can bring an aircraft in safely. Not along ago I think four pilots were awarded for heroism in the cockpit, for saving lives when aircraft malfunctioned.

The pilot is a valuable tool and will not be disposed of. Likewise, the pilots are not allowed to use the panic button in any situation other than a terrorist attack or any situation the prevents the use of normal and backup flight insturments and controls. automated flight should be treated as a last resort, to be used in the most serious of situations.

Someone said that people on the ground would be complaining about automated "Aircraft in panic" landing at their airport.

Actually I disagree. See I highly doubt that the panic button will be used often, but when it is needed it should be there. If an aircraft in an otherwise doomed situation lands safely because a terroritst was unable to use the flight controls, people on the ground will be glad that the pax made it back alive instead of in a heap at the bottom of the World Trade Center.

I don't think there will be as many complaints about it as one might think.

Expensive, yes. Worth it, you bet. Even one life saved makes it worth it.

On another note, someone suggested that autoland not be used, and the aircraft simply fly in a circle over the airport.

This is not a logical idea. There are anumber of reasons:

First, how are you going to get the pax out and to safety? An override switch? Well who's to say then when you override it, the terrorist takes control?

Second, if the terrorist is disabled by the pax, how are you going to land the plane? What if the flight crew is dead or injured? Are you going to play Airport 75 and drop someone into the plane on a tether?

Third, if the terrorist is not disabled, what will you do when the aircraft runs out of fuel. It will drop to the ground and kill hundreds of people, or at least destroy much property, also ending the lives of those aboard.

Options: People on the outside, say the tower, could remote control the aircraft.

No, too expensive and too difficult, it'd require extesive training to do that and the odds are against them anyway.

Option#2- aircraft could cirle above airport, and tower would send detailed autoland informations, such as ILS signal, to advanced panic autoland, which the plane's computer would compute, feed into the autopilot, and ladn the aircraft.

I like this idea.

I think the panic button should bring the plane over the airport, upon which time the computer controlling the autopilot would recieve digitally encoded information from the tower which would rpgram the autopilot to land on a specific runway and utilize an ILS.

I believe that is our best option.

Now I really hope I didn't offend anyone here by pointing out flaws in ideas, but if a solution is to be found, it should be the best.

The panic button is the best idea. A computer failure could and should be rare. As said earlier, the internal computer which controls all the panic button flight movements should be hidden, away from the flight deck, perhaps in the tail. Yes, the tail is a good idea.  Big grin This makes it impossible for the hijackers or even crew to access the main computer unless accessed from the outside, on the ground.

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic

 
Lemieux66
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 9:58 am

RE: My View On This Subject....

Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:43 am

Computer failure rare? Sort of like 4 domestic hijackings in the nation within a few hours?

While the "panic button" could save lives.. it could also cost a LOT more if it were to malfunction. And EVERYTHING in the plane is able to malfunction. What if someone pulled the circuit breaker to the computer(s) locking out the pilots? They'd have control back... or worse (no control). And if they didnt have control back they could just physically destroy everything in the cockpit/avionics bay to cause the plane to go down

No matter how high we build our walls, there will be away over or around them. You focus on aviation, they find another way.
 
ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:51 am

So what happens when there is a crash and the pilots need to escape quickly from that "armored" cockpit?
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:46 am

It does not need to be a door armored enough to stop a tank, just something strong enough to withstand someone kicking it in and bullet resistant. Kevlar perhaps. I'd love to see someone trying to kick the door in as the pilot points the nose to heaven and the guy is on quick trip to the rear lav!

I heard the expert as well say that doors were made light to give during rapid decompressurization. This is odd because I would think the blow out panels could be situated on the floors leading to the cargo hold, or on the edges or upper portions of the bulkhead.

Pilots may need to stay secured behind this bulkhead during flight with a small lav and ports that can recieve food and beverages.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:49 am

Option#2- Terrorist causes aircraft to go into panic mode. Aircraft could cirle above spot, and terrorist base camp would send detailed autocrash informations, such as ILS signal, to advanced terrorist autocrash, which the plane's computer would compute, feed into the autopilot, and crash the aircraft.

And if you get a sleeper on the maintinence....you don't need to even waste money brainwashing new f*ckhead terrorists.

Not possible? 4 hijackings in one day? Time & Money
 
jkelley480
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2000 10:03 am

RE: Armored Cockpits Now!

Thu Sep 13, 2001 10:45 am

Armored doors are not impossible, even with pressurization problems. Engineers can design a gas escape route. Even a hidden hole in the bulkhead would work. But armored doors are not as important as doors that cannot be breached by a person. We will have to trust that airport security will keep the guns and knives off the plane. Cabin surveillance will allow the pilots to see what is going on in the cabin. This way they can decide whether or not it is safe to exit the cockpit. It seems logical to me.

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