Guest

FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:53 am

This information was accurate as of 730pm EST. Things may have changed since then.

I sat in on the 6pm FAA conference call and also met up later in the evening with officials from Saudia, Air India, Korean Air, ANA, Pakistan Airlines, Bangladesh Biman, Egyptair and Uzebekistan Airlines.

The FAA is gearing up for a nasty showdown with the non-US carriers that operate into the United States. At present, the only use of US airspace by non-US carriers is for "diversion recovery operations from Canada". This does NOT include diversion recovery flights from the Carribean, Mexico, Europe or other US cities.

Specific examples :

a) Saudia has a 744 diverted to NAS. They want to ferry the aircraft back to JED, but require use of US airspace for the flight plan. They have been DENIED permission.

b) Korean Air has a 744 for IAD that was diverted to MSP. They attempted a diversion recovery flight today, but were ordered back to MSP by the Minnesotta Air National Guard or else be shot down.

c) Air India has a 744 for JFK that was returned to LHR. Although US flag carriers are permitted diversion recovery flights on LHR-JFK, AI has been denied permission on that route. A number of AI pax do not have permission to enter the UK and are being held in detention centers as a result.

d) Egyptair wanted to evacuate 48 crew members from New York in response to anti-Arab threats received by their offices. They were ready on a ferry flight out, but were denied permission by the FBI (not the FAA). Some crew were detained for questioning and the rest were returned to their hotel under armed escort.

The US carriers have been cleared to resume UNRESTRICTED part 121, part 129, part 131, part 135 and part 107 operations both internationally and domestically (with some minor exceptions). Why then are non-US carriers (whose security standards exceed those demanded by the FAA) being denied permission to even repatriate their aircrafts and crews?

As an unidentified European carrier commented, "This isn't security, its protectionism for US carriers. Have they forgotten that it was US planes that caused this mess in the first place?"
 
OPNLguy
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:58 am

Why are you discussing the contents of an FAA conference call in a public forum?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:05 pm

OPNLguy - were you on the call as well? If you were, you will note that I didn't include any of the sensitive info that they gave us about the security measures and the JFK detentions.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:28 pm

>>>...you will note that I didn't include any of the sensitive info that they gave us about the security measures and the JFK detentions.

You've missed my point entirely.

It's not up to you to determine what's "sensitive" and what's not. It'd be prudent to assume that *everything* is, and say/post nothing, and thus leave nothing to chance.

Think!

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
BA
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:31 pm

I really think this is unfair, prohibiting int'l carriers to stop service, while allowing US carriers to fly internationally. A terrorist would more LIKELY target a US airline than a foreign airline. Known fact, so I think this move that the FAA is doing is stupid.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
akelley728
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:33 pm

OPNLguy...

B747-337M is completely correct. YOU were not on the call, so how do you know what is confidential or not?

I heard the same thing myself about an hour ago on BBC World here in the U.S.

So it's no secret.

The 'unidentified' European carrier was British Airways
 
OPNLguy
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:37 pm

I was on the call...

I say again, why discuss *anything* said on it, in case one's assessment as to what's "sensitive" (or not) is incorrect?

It's a new world folks....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:47 pm

Sorry OPNL, but I must disagree. You are reacting with the same kneejerk that the FAA is right now. Until and unless I am told that something is classified, or alternatively if I deem it sensitive in my judgement, I will use my discretion about what I say and to whom.

I'd be interested to see your views on the entire drama though if you were in on the call.
 
SouthRebels
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:48 pm

I agree with OPNLguy. Maybe this wasn't the best judgement to release information here, whether you think its sensitive or not. Why even mess with chance, its not worth it. As for denying foreign airliners, we have absolutely no choice. We cannot risk it. It's not worth it. The carriers and their countries will understand and if they don't then screw them. This has been said so many times..........we don't live in the U.S. we did four days ago. It's a new place, one which the U.S. cannot be diplomatic anymore. We must finally look out for whats best for us. We aren't talking a couple hundred dead. Try a tens of thousands. Everyone needs to understand this. God Bless America.
 
ahlfors
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carr

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:53 pm

I understand(marginally) banning international aircraft from entering US airspace for now, but keeping international aircraft at US airports withou letting them get out of the US... even with crew only... thats like impounding them while letting the airlines that were involved in the mess (AA and UA) fly.

If these terrorists are after AMERICAN assets, more likely they would go after and American (the nation) aircraft, and not an international airline.

Maybe banning El Al, Egypt Air, Saudia, Kuwait Airways and PIA makes sense, but BA, LH, AC (!!!), JL, QF is just paranoid.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:55 pm

This is exactly the jingoistic bullcrap that the FAA is pulling in the name of security which is seriously beginning to piss people off. If any other country detained US aircraft and crews in the face of a terrorist incident like this, there would be cries of bloody murder.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that a terrorist is more likely to be aboard the Korean ferry from MSP-IAD or the Air India LHR-JFK than aboard the Delta flight from YQX-ATL or a brand new AA flight LHR-JFK. In fact, all the evidence points to the CONTRARY. The non-US carriers have security standards that are INFINITELY superior to those that the US carriers have used before Tuesday and are experienced at implementing counter-terrorism measures.

Once again, lest people forget, these were AMERICAN CARRIERS that dropped the ball from a security standpoint. Why penalize the rest of the world?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:56 pm

>>>You are reacting with the same kneejerk that the FAA is right now.

Tens of thousands of folks probably dead from Tuesday's insanity, and you're calling FAA's actions "kneejerk" reactions? Puleeeze...


>>>Until and unless I am told that something is classified, or alternatively if I deem it sensitive in my judgement, I will use my discretion about what I say and to whom.

Like, they say, common sense isn't always common..


>>>I'd be interested to see your views on the entire drama though if you were in on the call.

Not here you won't...

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ryu2
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:59 pm

I liked B747-337M's post, and found the info very interesting about the foreign carriers -- the rest I had already read in NOTAMs which are quite public to begin with; hardly secret info.

Question: If the Korean Air at MSP didn't have permission to use the airspace, why was it even given flightplan/takeoff clearance in the first place? (I assume that it was intercepted in midair?)
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:01 pm

Maybe banning El Al, Egypt Air, Saudia, Kuwait Airways and PIA makes sense, but BA, LH, AC (!!!), JL, QF is just paranoid.

Jeez, can we say PROFILING? You are just proving my point.

Why on earth would you ban El Al from the skies? They are the safest airline in the world. I would ban the others based on security before I touched El Al.

Also, this morning's PANYNJ conference call with JFK carriers said that El Al and Air India were the only two carriers in FULL COMPLIANCE with the FAA's enhanced security measures BEFORE they were announced.

Talk about double standards.

Also, Canadian flag carriers are exempt from this ban. Forgot to mention that.
 
PerthGloryFan
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:05 pm

From OPNLguy's "Other Info":

"It's not what you know, it's what you *don't* know that will get ya!"

So what is it you don't want us to know?

It may seem the decision to open the skies again may have been premature - maybe pressure from the o/s operators themselves? All the relevant agencies need to get their respective and collective acts together and start to work together.

I accept that it should not have to be the job of individual attendees at a meeting to decide to release info - that is what the agencies should do.
But how many foreign a/c are at US airports? What's so secret about why they can't leave US airspace? What's secret about telling anyone that they can't leave?

Apply strict security processes to clear each one, however long that takes, and then let them go as cleared.

PGF

 
ahlfors
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carr

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:06 pm

So, what the hell makes AC so much better than BA or LH or any other foreign carrier for that matter? The reason I mentioned Middle Eastern airlines is that they are from the Middle East, and thus the FAA could use their knee-jerk reactions to block those flights. Personally I don't approve of the bans, unless there is credible evidence that they are more dangerous than US/Canadian flights.
 
SFORAMPER
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RE: Alliances?

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:14 pm

will this affect any alliances in your opinion?
 
ahlfors
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RE: Alliances?

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:18 pm

Well, Most OneWorld, Star, and SkyTeam international airline fly to the US, so yeah, it will affect the alliances. Will it affect the composition of alliances... I doubt it.

BTW... Any ideas if US airlines will be flying extra international fligths to compensate for the cancelations?
 
danialanwar
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:57 pm

I must agree that banning non-US carrier does not make much security sense. After all, the US carriers take off from the same airports with the same security as do the non-US carriers. And US carriers are probably higher on the target list of terrorists.

If at all, it should be non-US countries banning flights FROM the US, since the security violations clearly have taken place in the US.

I guess considering the scale and the surprise factor (who expected it to come this way???) of the attacks will go a long way in explaining some questionable decisions like these.
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:02 pm

As normal with the states, look after number 1 first.
 
flyhigh@tom
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:15 pm

I completely agree with B747-337M. FAA is using double standards, especially i see no point in detaining non US carriers when the security levels for thses airlines is the same as of American airlines if not more.
Infact this is giving rise to a nasty situation with only the UC carriers(and some canadian) having monopoly in US airspace.
For example AI is already facing financial problems and grounding one of its a\c is only going to worsen matters. My sympathies with the American people for the dastardly terrorist that they have faced, but i would also like to know how they would feel if we ground a US airlines in an Asian country while we let our airlines roam all over freely.
 
MX727
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:46 pm

I don't see why foreign carriers cannot ferry their aircraft out, or why Egyptair crewmembers are treated like criminals. It's sad cause it seems Americans are rising thier rage against anything that sounds like foreign.
My best hopes and my prayers for you from Mexico... We are with you
 
Fly-by-pilot
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:48 pm

Maybe its because the US carriers are being investigated first for obvious reasons and they havent gotten arround to the internation carriers. I doubt the FAA is sabotaging international carrier operations in order to aid US airlines economically. I find it despicable that some of you are even considering this.
 
LV
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 3:02 pm

im confused, can candian carriers get their plans back up to Canada? I was watching a shot from La Guardia a few hours ago and I saw an AC a/c sitting at a gate in the background. SO are they going to be able to get that plane back north?
 
lutfi
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 3:40 pm

My understanding is that the FAA will need to recertify each airport and airline before allowing them to resume operations. Obviously, they don't have the manpower to recertify all airlines at once, so therefore are concentrating on the ones that will have the biggest impact on the US economy - so US and Canada first, expect Mexico, European and East Asian carriers to be next on the list.

ME and Subcontinent carriers may find themselves at the back of a long queue. Whether or not SV or AI fly to the US will have minimal impact on US, as pax can get there via Europe.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:44 pm

Yep, B747-337M - I'm hearing from contacts in quite a few European airlines that they are geting rather frustrated with the Americans at present - especially bearing in mind that European and major Asian carriers tend to have the best security whilst it's historically been the case that US carriers have had the poorest ... as demonstrated on Tuesday.

If they want support from the rest of the world - which we are more than happy to provide - then this is the wrong way to go about getting that assistance!
 
L-188
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:53 pm

Hey it goes both ways...

Continental had a flight that was supposed to go ANC-to EWR sometime today.

The Canadian government denied use of that much of it's airspace.

Eventually it went to Los Angles
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Sam the Lab
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:30 pm

All of what has happened has been such a blow to the American psyche that the government and the FAA are still very much in shock and have not been able to think things through clearly but nevertheless want to be seen by the public to be doing something so they are for the moment very much indulging in knee-jerk reactions by their behaviour in not allowing the foreign carriers position their aircraft back to their home bases. As is said all ready the overseas operators have for the most part a better history of good security and go through very much the same security at U. S. airports so it looks to me that the FAA is protecting first the economic interests of the American carriers as things slowly get back to operational status. The same thing would happen in any other country as well.
 
akelley728
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:39 am

This really sucks... my uncle decided to take a cheap fare to India on Ethiopian airlines (via Addis Ababa). He normally takes British airways via LHR.

Even if the U.S.'s 'allies' are allowed to fly in first, it's going to be awhile before he comes home.
 
sotomayor
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:06 am

You should guess that there are national security concerns driving the short-term policy of the FAA. Accusing the USA of ill-will in these actions (whether they are true or not) is not productive. This is an unfortunate thread in my opinion.
sotomayor
 
cedarjet
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:42 am

The ban on foreign airliners in US airspace is ridiculous. Security at Cairo, Seoul or Bombay is ten times better than for any US domestic carrier, at least before Tuesday.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
sfointern
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:59 am

Sean,

If you were on the conf call, why are you asking this?

Why then are non-US carriers (whose security standards exceed those demanded by the FAA) being denied permission to even repatriate their aircrafts and crews?

Wouldn't you know the answer already? Or is it that you want to start discussion, get secondhand opinion? Or is it that the FAA is making demands with no explanation...

If the very latter, that's messed up.
 
mikeymike
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:09 am

I didn't feel like reading all the rhetoric, but the South African Airlines 744 left Atlanta yesterday....so this is not a blanket case...
 
jaysit
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:08 am

Its our "we're an island unto ourself" mentality, guys. Thats all. We just have a lot of growing up to do, and unfortunately that will only come in fits and spurts.

Plus, remember that the FAA has a dual mission one of which is to "promote the interests of the US Aviation and airline industry." Bias? Yes. Reality? Yes. Statutory authority? Yes.

I do hope that Air India and El Al can resume services to the US soon.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
GDB
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:19 am

I'd like to think, and we should assume, that the FAA are suffering from admin. overload.
Even so, FAA and security? What a joke, and a tragic one at that.
They need a total root and branch reform, and a different mission.
 
Boeingfan
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:30 am

This is the wrong place for this info. and conjecture.

Everything is being done at this time to resolve security and flight issues in an effort to thwart further incidents.

Please have patience, every crew member, aircraft, and passenger must be reverified.

This small incovienence is for all of our safety and is not designed to further isolate international carriers.

Constructively cooporate, pray and have awareness that others have suffered major trauma and loss.

Thank you for understanding.

Bf

 
OPNLguy
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Sotomayor

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:38 am

>>>You should guess that there are national security concerns driving the short-term policy of the FAA. Accusing the USA of ill-will in these actions (whether they are true or not) is not productive. This is an unfortunate thread in my opinion.

Agree with you 100%.

The actions/reactions folks are seeing are to a dynamic situation, and those responses will evolve the further we get out from the original incident. In the "sorting out" phase that we're in now, they've elected to prioritize things the way they have, for whatever reasons they have (and nobody here on airliners.net is privy to).

I'm going to continue to act on the presumption that they know what they're doing, and will sort things out and get *all* traffic moving again just as soon as they can, and that the delays in getting various types of operators/airlines moving hasn't been accomplished with any premeditated business intent. (Hey, if you don't know something, or understand something, find somebody or something to blame).

Nice post...

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:04 am

Some clarifications :

a) The issue of security certification is NOT relevant, as all of these airlines HAVE BEEN inspected and certified already by the relevant airport authorities. This is merely a BLANKET BAN against non-US/Canadian operators.

b) Canadian carriers may operate any flights into and out of all US airports except JFK, LGA, EWR, BOS and DCA.

c) Hass - yes, it was a rhetorical question. It was asked multiple times on the call by different airlines but no explanation was given. Go figure.

d) Mikeymike - airlines may complete RECOVERY AND REPATRIATION FLIGHTS on a case by case basis on individual approval from the FAA. Koren Air is ferrying out of JFK this afternoon using that same procedure.

e) Jaysit - I thought the dual mandate was withdrawn in 1997 after Mary Schiavo's little tirades.

f) Stretch8 - Bite me. I'm not an employee of Air India or the DGCA and I got access to the conference call through other sources. My name is in my profile, so I don't need to hide behind anything. Go to http://fly.faa.gov and you will find a list of NOTAMs that pretty much cover everything I've said. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but Air India has been conducting CONTINUOUS TRANSATLANTIC OPERATIONS into and out of the United States longer than ANY of the current US operators.

Finally, please don't even begin to accuse me of insensitivity in this situation. I was travelling from EWR-SFO on Tuesday and fortunately declined a seat on the ill-fated UA93 which I watched taxi out and take off. I saw the impact of the second aircraft with the World Trade Center in real time from the runway at EWR airport. I volunteered at a triage center on Tuesday afternoon and with the US Marshals on Wednesday to assist with evacuations.

That said, I will continue to flame the FAA for their dumb, knee-jerk actions that reek of economic protectionism. The FAA needs to take a strong look at the US Airline industry and downgrade it to Compliance Oversight Category 2 along with the Nigerias and Laoses of the world.
 
goingboeing
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:11 am

It's Sean - 25 year old wunderkid cop/computer guru/airline analyst/and FAA director wanna-be.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:16 am

Finally, please don't even begin to accuse me of insensitivity in this situation. I was travelling from
EWR-SFO on Tuesday and fortunately declined a seat on the ill-fated UA93 which I watched taxi out
and take off. I saw the impact of the second aircraft with the World Trade Center in real time from the
runway at EWR airport. I volunteered at a triage center on Tuesday afternoon and with the US
Marshals on Wednesday to assist with evacuations.

That said, I will continue to flame the FAA for their dumb, knee-jerk actions that reek of economic
protectionism. The FAA needs to take a strong look at the US Airline industry and downgrade it to
Compliance Oversight Category 2 along with the Nigerias and Laoses of the world.


You ask not to be accused of insensitivity, then you make some of the most insensitive remarks I have yet to see regarding the events of the last few days, and the aftermath.

Considering the level to which security has been compromised, most likely by foreign nationals, I think the foreign carriers are the reckless ones if they expect to start operations right back up like nothing happened.

Finally, I don't think the Indian government is one to complain about protectionism.... Just ask the folks at Delta World Headquarters in Atlanta about the 5 minute turns they would have had to do on a B767-300ER at BOM with the slots given them by the Indian Government.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:40 am

Considering the level to which security has been compromised, most likely by foreign nationals, I think the foreign carriers are the reckless ones if they expect to start operations right back up like nothing happened.

What an absolutely sickening Ameri-centric view of the events. "We screwed up, so lets blame the foreigners"

I said this before, and will say it again. This tragedy was caused by AMERICAN AIRCRAFT operated by AMERICAN CREW under AMERICAN REGISTRATION leaving from AMERICAN SOIL. Face it buddy, AMERICA screwed up bigtime. Don't blame anyone else for your own shortcomings, and definitely don't penalize them for it while protecting the very airlines who messed up in the first place.

American airport security WAS A JOKE until Tuesday and will continue to be ineffective until you start recruiting competent people at decent wages. People will write off a day or two in the name of compassion and security, but its been 3 days now. Lets get back to the work of rebuilding the aviation transportation system, because right now you are just dragging it down further and for absolutely the wrong reasons.
 
jaysit
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:49 am

My such affirmative language !!
And why on earth should "Air India and its ilk" (whatever that means) be banned from US airports?
Conclusive statements should be supported by evidentiary facts, don't you think? Or are we slipping into the kind of xenophobic sh*t that even our erstwhile President (bless his heart) is openly denouncing?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:57 am

B747-337M- This is sick. This tradgedy was NOT caused by american aircraft, flight crew and registration. This was caused by some cowardly maniacs trying to wreak havoc on a peaceful country. Very few flights are operating, and the FAA is taking a very conservative stance on this. No general aviation operations are permitted in the US, and much 121 and 135 operations are very very restricted. This is not a lets get the foriegners thing. This is us trying to protect ourselves from further problems.

You still havent said how on earth at 13-15 year old got in on an FAA conference call.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Stretch 8
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:58 am

Okay, I retract the Air India crack. But the originator of this thread is an annoying little prick who thinks he knows more about everything than everyone. he needs to back off and get a job with the FAA, or CNN, or perhaps managing a McDonald's.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
jaysit
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:04 am

I just looked at the FAA list. It appears that airline ops are slowly being restored to normal.
Also, you cannot blame US airlines for the disaster on Tuesday. This was an incredibly low-tech, high concept operation. Who would have EVER guessed that something as mundane and innocuous as a box opener and pen knife could result in the kind of destruction we saw? Yes, our security is rather poor in the US, and I believe that US airlines are complicit in ensuring that the findings of the Gore report were never seriously implemented, but this is just one piece of the problem.
B747-337M: I am curious though as to why Air India has not been cleared to operate from BOM and DEL if you say that the FAA believes its security ops are above par, especially if DL, NW, and UA are.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
flashmeister
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RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:08 am

My read on the EgyptAir situation is that for whatever reason, the FBI may think that it's not safe for them to return, or they may think that there's more information.

The armed escort back may have been simply an acknowledgement of EgyptAir's security concerns and to assure their safety.

Let's not jump to conclusions, folks. In this situation, that's very dangerous.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:11 am

XFSU - With all due respect, I beg to differ. If US carriers (who have a proven recent track record of bad security) are considered NOT to be a security risk, how can you justify that other carriers who are not only in compliance with present security standards, but have been in compliance all along, as being risks? Because they are not American and you are?

If the FAA had a serious reason to deny foreign carriers entry into the US, they would have also restricted US carriers from those operations. However, the current situation is double standards and until I see any evidence or explanation to the contrary, I will consider it to be economic protectionism at work.

You say that 121 and 135 ops are restricted? How so? Last I checked, there was no restriction on these ops provided the new standards were being met.

Also, if you believe that I am really 13-15 yrs old, you need to seriously examine yourself!  Smile
 
BarfBag
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:16 am

Also, if you believe that I am really 13-15 yrs old, you need to seriously examine yourself!

Unfortunately you also need to seriously examine your profile  Smile
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:17 am

What I want to know is how come Sean "declined" a seat UA93? Do you have that much time on your hands to hang out at the airport and pick and choose which transcon flights you are going to take? I would imagine that if you were non-reving, you would have jumped on the first available seat, and considering that UA 93 wasn't even half full, I gotta wonder why. If you weren't non-reving, then you gotta be one of the wealthiest 25 year olds I've ever heard of...being able to afford $2,000 trips at the drop of a hat. I kind of think you've got a vivid imagination that you often use to impress the teenagers.
 
Guest

RE: FAA Heading To Nasty Showdown With Non-US Carriers

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:19 am

B747-337M: I am curious though as to why Air India has not been cleared to operate from BOM and DEL if you say that the FAA believes its security ops are above par, especially if DL, NW, and UA are.

Jaysit - AI is not even being allowed to COMPLETE ITS DIVERTED FLIGHTS from Tuesday that were forced to return to LHR. Of course, UA and AA have both completed flights from LHR in the last 24 hrs without security issues. Double standards I ask? You be the judge.