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B737-112
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Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 3:59 pm

I just heard on the news that the FBI is investigating Microsoft for making FS2K. It sounds like they are accusing MS of making it easier to fly a jetliner once in the air therefore making the whole WTC disaster possible.

First the breakup, now this?

I think it's crap, your opinions.....

 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:09 pm

Poor FBI... They should rather investigate Boeing for developing the 757/767. Or the architect of the WTC. Or the fueling company at BOS/IAD - the WTC would not have burnt that much without the fuel. You know what I mean? It IS all crap!
 
Guest

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:15 pm

Thats plain retarded. Why dont they investigate the makers of Fly, ProPilot and X-plane as well. First it was about violent games causing people to kill and now they are acusing flight simulations, which are violence free of the same thing. Sims strive to be "As real as it gets" because if they weren't, what would be the point of wasting your time with one?

I think the FBI needs to focus on the real prolem which is the US governemt. If they would've minded their own busines and left the matters of the middle east for the countries there to solve this would never have happened.

Is like blaming the Wright Brothers of iventing an aiplane and Boeing for manufacturing their airliners. Ridiculous.

Sure any of us flightsimmer probably could have pulled off happened, but not one of us has yet had any motive to do so.

 
SN-A330
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:18 pm

always thought my Mac's keyboard and screen looked a lot like a 767-cockpit. Come on!  Yeah sure
I would rather be flying...
 
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B737-112
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Cyka

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:23 pm

You're opinion is the same as mine.

Why was FS2K blamed over the competition (like you mentioned)? A TV reporter said MS Flight Sim is more accurate and better selling.

Makes alot of sense right?

 
GE
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:46 pm

This is the article guys... ENJOY! : http://www.msnbc.com/news/628194.asp?0si=-#BODY
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:05 pm

This is so cheap. It seems like the FBI wants to acuse anyone who may or may not have been involved in this incident.

/Fritzi
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:20 pm

with the same reasoning you could argue that FSims save live in that they enable non pilots to land a plane safely if theres something wrong with the pilot.

this scenario is not that unlikely for small private planes flown by rich men in their 60ies prone to stroke or heart attack. so better their daughters and sons are trained to land.

regards, rabenschlag
 
ryu2
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:24 pm

I read Bob Arnot's article in the link above, and it's probably the most ill-informed article I've read in the popular media so far about this incident.

Flight simulators could be a "problem"? Should we have controls, like guns?

A Piper Cub flys the same way as a 767?

A PC is a viable substitute for a full-motion sim?

AF1 can fly supersonic?

He should really stick to writing about health and medicine.
 
b-hox
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:31 pm

This is just absolutely crap.....If PC sims could actually promote the easiness to fly an airplane or navigate to locate a target like the WTC.....then why the terriost pay $1000 to get in those fligt schools?....Or even so, it doesn't mean MS flight sims are allowing these terrioists to be experts in flying.........the FBI should look at other areas instead....like structure of the WTC, fuel companies or even why these people were able to get weapons aboard and use force to kill many lives.....

Sims are always be used for pleasure of freedom, or praticing your flying skills........it will never be designed for cruel people that destroy the nature of the hobby, and more so the freedom of many people once had. Simply, if the terriost used sims to enhance their flying skills, it's already defeating the purpose of the software and cheating the hobby of many aviation enthuisats.


-B-HOX-
 
Cathay Pacific
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:34 pm

maybe MS funded the terrorist for this attack....

please....give me a break......
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
Guest

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:15 pm

Hope won't these cause FS2002 release delay.......

 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:16 pm

Meanwhile back on planet earth....other people are dealing with real problems.... Yeah sure
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:30 pm

and there I was hassling the M$ staff about this today .... but I was only joking.

Surely this must be a joke?

Maybe the FBI really are elephant trackers.



VH-ADG
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:39 pm

In fact, I already thougt that there will be a "clever" journalist comming up with this story.

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
ydna_anderson
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 9:07 pm

CHEAP JOURNALIST!! i dont really do flight sim that mich but i know a few fundamentals go get a plane off the ground and land.... i really think that this guy wrote this thing just to be popular and earn some money from this column.... what a cheap ploy....
 
zrb2
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 9:51 pm

Ridiculous. So are they are going to outlaw MS Flightsim and plastic butter knives but hand guns for normal citizens will still be legal? That's not right.
The bottom line is that if someone is willing to kill himself in order to kill you, you really can't stop it. I'm amazed at how many of these extremist psychos in the middle east actually do know how to pilot planes.
I play with FS2K all the time but I'm sure if I got in a cockpit of a real 767 I wouldn't be that confident to fly it.
 
b757300
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 10:56 pm

That article needs a BARF ALERT by it.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
airbus380
Posts: 1575
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 10:58 pm

This is so stupid. So when there's a train crash are they going to blame it on Microsoft Train Simulator. Give me a break.
 
FT
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 11:00 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:02 pm

If Microsoft is going to somehow be held responsible for the events on Tuesday, then I would also assume that the debate about violence on television and in the movies has also been settled. Following the FBI's logic, all violent forms of entertainment, be they movies or video games should be held accountable for all the other violent acts that are perpetrated in the world.
 
User avatar
Luxair
Posts: 836
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:05 pm

What a BULLSH**T
 
b-hox
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:07 pm

EXACTLY !! MY POINT WAS MADE CLEAR...
TOTALLY ABSURD....

-B-HOX-
 
rotation18L
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 11:30 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:20 pm

Ryu2:

I agree with you for the most part, except I don't believe you read Dr. Arnot's statement about AF 1 with respect to supersonic speed accurately.

He stated that an a/c with terrorists at the controls would have to reach supersonic CLOSING speed to reach AF 1. Since 747's can fly at around Mach .91 or Mach .92, another a/c would have to come pretty close to mach speed in order to close-in on AF1 at some distance.

Rotation18L
 
rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:45 pm

While I completely agree with the idea that pursuing MS over this is complete crap, I do want to make one point. My wife was speaking to a friend of hers who flies A319's/A320's for a NW. She repeated the fact that once the a/c is in the air, piloting it is really a simple task that even non-pilots would quickly pick up - especially when landing it (in this case) is a non-issue.

Also, in defense of this article, I didn't get the notion that Mr. Arnot was being sensationalist. He was merely bringing up the point that all this is possible. Should he have not done so?

rapo
 
Krushny
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:10 am

I do not think the FBI is so stupid as to blame MS. They will probably be trying to find out if the terrorist need to have a serious pilot training, or if playing with the PC simulators was enough for their objectives. Or something like that. We will not see Bill Gates behind bars because of the WTC destruction.
 
Blackened
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:19 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:27 am

The article is crap but would't you agree the MS Flight Simulator could have helped a lot. I've never been to New York but I guess I was able to find the most important building. It might be sad right now but who has never tried to hit the WTC or flying between the towers? You can even land there with the heli. You can also use flight planning tools, get an idea of the flight physics (might not be 100% realistic but comes close) and basic instruments, navigation and auto pilot. I've flown on MS FlightSim and I was very surprised noticing I was easily able to fly a real "aircraft" including landing etc. in an airline's real simulator. And it didn't feel different.
But blaming Microsoft for that would be as ridiculous as sueing Boeing or maybe AA or UA.
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back
 
RoyalDutch
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 9:51 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:32 am

anybody stop to think that fs2k doesn't even offer a '67 or a '57? You can fly concorde, 737, or 777. All the rest is small stuff
 
sotomayor
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:10 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:50 am

The story quoted from MSNBC doesn't mention the FBI at all. It's just some idle reporter that hasn't much hard information to provide. I'm sure Microsoft will get on this guy's case since it's a stupid story that gives them bad publicity.

It's been leaked that the terrorists were attending real flight schools, including Flight Safety, to work on real simulators. MSFS is just a toy, complex and good to learn some IFR skills, but not good enough to teach you how to accurately maneuver a 767 or 757 plane to those targets under visual conditions (or any conditions).
sotomayor
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:58 am

I think an FBI investigation into flight simulators and their role in this event is a good thing. It will prove that nothing is going on, discrediting any lawyer sueing Microsoft (or other FS makers) for damages in advance.

Maybe Microsoft asked the FBI to launch an investigation with that in mind? It would prevent a certain Mr. Thomas Penfield Jackson from making another illegitimate ruling to damage them...
I wish I were flying
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:08 am

RoyalDutch, you can download any plane you want from all manner of websites.
I regularly fly a 767 (an Air NZ one... oh no! I'm the devil!!) on FS2K.
Having never flown a real 767 before though I don't know how realistic it is. My experience is limited to Piper Cherokees....
 
airbus380
Posts: 1575
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RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:10 am

You can download any type of aircraft to use with FS.
 
ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:48 am

At best, they could learn FMS procedures with a PC flight sim. But the feel of the aircraft when you are hand flying it is obviously impossible to reproduce with a PC. You can be pretty sure that the aircraft were hand flown in order to crash them into their targets; last I checked, there was no navigation fix at the Pentagon or WTC in the databases!

You don't see UA, AA, etc. ditching their multi-million dollar sims for PCs, do you? Enough said.
 
B808/A400
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat May 05, 2001 8:22 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:53 am

This story is bogus. FBI only used MS flight sim as
an example of what could be used to learn to fly. No
one would seriously blame a game company for making
a game too realistic.
 
Guest

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:56 am

Yeah, slow the rumor mill down a bit.

(This reminds me of all the smoking guns from grassey knolls after JFK was assassinated).
 
Teej13
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 5:52 am

SN-A330

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:25 am

 Smile
I've been told my iBook looks like a "Flying Toilet Seat"... maybe the FBI should call Steve Jobs up in Cupertino to see there's a connection there  Big grin
 
Dufo
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:41 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:40 am

This is so silly...
but even so, it somehow shows the MS FS superiority over other PC simulators.

I wonder if there are going to be be WTC towers in FS2002...

Regards,
Jernej
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
MCOtoATL
Posts: 448
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 1999 12:01 pm

The FBI Has Not Criticized Microsoft

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:24 am

The FBI has not come down on Microsoft, nor have the criticized any Flightsim programs. They simply wanted to see if a terrorist (or anyone else for that matter) could learn to fly a jetliner based on the program. No one can criicize a product if it is mis-used.
 
RoyalDutch
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 9:51 pm

To BCalDC10

Sat Sep 15, 2001 6:48 am

BCalDC10
Ya, I've heard that....but are they made by Microsoft or private providers?
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:19 am

I'm trying to recall how many times I lost control of my Bell 206B JetRanger and crashed into the World Trade Center.

Gosh, I feel so guilty now...
 
NWA
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:20 am

I have the program they are talking about, its called 767 P.I.C, I could not fly a 767, that simple.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:54 am

It is not difficult to crash into World Trade Center on FS. I tried it on my computer after that terrible event. Maybe the US government will force MS to sell the FS. The US government is very scare. I've heard that some pilots complained the FS is not as real it gets. It's very difficult to determine if it is true.
 
SFORAMPER
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 3:28 pm

RE: Hollywood?

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:02 am

Well if this is the logic then hollywood is more to blame, remember executive decision just to name one.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:47 am

A while ago in Hong Kong we had a minibus plough into a shop, killing people. I think we should ban all driving games.

People get shot ALL THE TIME in the US, why are shooting games not banned?

Bad parents can wreck the lives of kids who otherwise had bright futures. I think we should ban 'The Sims'.

Some cities have very bad transport systems and bad areas of town which have run down. SimCity should be banned.

Wasn't there an incident recently in which some people were injured on a ride in an amusement park when it suddenly stopped in midair? I think we should ban 'ThemePark'.

There have been incidents in the past of people pretending to be doctors on board aircraft and 'helping' patients. 'ThemeHospital' should definately be banned.

I can go on, but I think this has been stupid enough.
 
b-hox
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:44 pm

Therefore it's out of the contol of the society to stop people harming each other......after kids watch or imitate something from T.V or video games........

-B-HOX-
 
Guest

RE: Microsoft Taking Slack For Flight Simulator

Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:03 pm

Blaming MSFS and any other flightsim is totaly absurd!!!! These damn terrorists had trained pilots among them and did not need sims to train them to fly into the WTC and kill thousands of lives!

P.S. The FS2000 addon in question here is Wilco's 767 Pilot In command http://www.wilcopub.com

åviatioÑ_lover

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