dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:19 am

 Smile Hi Everyone  Smile
After tuesday's attacks on America, I was listening to the news and I heard that El Al are the most safest airline to fly with!
What are your opinions on this?

Thanks for all your replies!

DC-10
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:23 am

Didn't El Al's plane need assistance from Israeli's Fighter jet when they're departing and landing?
 
aaron atp
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:17 pm

El Al, ANA, JAL In The US Today

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:29 am

>>>>

!FDC 1/9895 ZZZ PART 1 OF 2 SPECIAL NOTICE - EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY
UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.139, EMERGENCY
AIR TRAFFIC RULES. MILITARY, U.S. GOVERNMENT, AND IFR/VFR
COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER 14 CFR PARTS 121, 125, 129, AND
135 ARE AUTHORIZED TO OPERATE IN THE UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE
SYSTEM WITH THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS.

[snip]

10. ALL EL AL, ALL NIPPON AND JAPAN AIRLINE CAN OPERATE INTO, OUT OF,
OR OVER U.S. AIRSPACE.


<<<<


full text at http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/24491/


aaron
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:42 am

El Al is a role model for airline security. To have not succombed to a terrorist attack after all the troubles is an astonishing achievement.

Expect El Al security experts to work closely with US authorities in future.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:51 pm

I personally think that British Airways are the sasfest airline to fly with!
 
avi
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:14 am

Jiml1126,
Absolutely not. You don’t see fighters at low altitude above Tel Aviv and the area.
Long live the B747
 
chepos
Posts: 5940
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:29 am

Hopefully we will follow EL AL's security measures.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
elal106
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2000 1:50 pm

RE: DC-10 Levo

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:31 am

Of course ELAL is the safest airline
u think ba is when they fly with the cockpit door open?!!!!!!!!
 
Yazoo
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:26 am

RE: EL AL

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:53 am

i wouldn`t fly to israel anyway, safe or not , cause el al covers only the flight duration not, the entire journey in israel
plus i think british airways is the best and safest airline
Purple Pride!
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: EL AL

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:00 am

YEAH!
Thanks yazoo!
BA Are the best and safest airline to fly with!
Plus, ElAl 106, what are you on about with BA leave their cockpit doors open in flight???
That's a load of rubbish!
BA ARE THE BEST AND SAFEST AIRLINE TO FLY WITH, AND THAT'S FINAL!
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:05 am

na na na
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:17 am

Been on El Al a few times, you can check in your luggage in TA the day before. They sure have armed guards on their flights, but perfect security? No they´re
not perfect, an big Israeli newspaper claim that they
are sloppy with hebrew speaking Israeli citizen, the paper managed to smuggle onboard fake bombs and
weapons!
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:31 am

fake bombs are not bombs!

now, NO security system can be 100% sure, everybody knows it. but it's by far not a reason to have no security procedures at all...

 
avi
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: EL AL

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:50 am

DC-10 Levo,

Should I fresh your memory about a BA flight over Africa that a passenger almost crashed it?
Long live the B747
 
AviationIvi
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:26 am


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ivica Ramljak - FRA Spotting



no colors, so nobody knows that this one is an El Al bird...  Big grin

but this one is a freighter...

Regards from FRA
Ivica
btw: would not feel safe flying them...
 
avi
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:23 am

El Al does not supposed to fly on weekends (Jew Sabat) and Jew holidays and indeed El Al passenger planes are on the ground once a week.
To override this a little bit, they removed El-Al signs from the freighters so at least these plane could fly all the week. It has nothing to do with security.

Long live the B747
 
WunalaDreaming
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:44 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:41 pm

I can believe that.

Maybe all other Airlines should look to them to show how Airside security needs to be from now on.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Frank Zahorik



 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:11 am

Anyone who says El Al is not the safest obviously has never flown them. Not only does El Al put passengers through the strictist questioning, asking just about everything about thier vacation to/from Israel, but they take extra steps other airlines do not, like two under-cover agents on every single one of their 30 planes, and a bomb decompression chamber, that all check-in luggage must go through. If a bomb set to go off in the plane because of air pressure is in the baggage, it will go off in the chamber. Not only to they invest for this at Tel Aviv, but just about every airport they fly to, from JFK to MIA to YYZ to LAX. I've never felt safer on an aircraft then when flying El Al. It's really too bad they stopped flying the New JFK-STN route with 5th freedom, though, and I wish they would fly MIA-TLV non-stop instead of MIA-JFK-TLV (rumours are, though, when they get thier 4th 772, it will be used on MIA-TLV).
a.
 
AviationIvi
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:55 am

right, was never flying El Al and at the moment I wouldn´t like to. I didn´t say that they are not safe, maybe they are, but I wouldn´t FEEL safe on them (don´t ask me why Big grin ) although they have their marshals on board...
I would just have a bad feeling onboard of any El Al jet because of all those damned conflicts down there. Isn´t this one reason to use their marshals on board????
I will fly LH this week again (but not to Israel)...

Regards to all,
Ivica
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:41 am

Well, I don´t think an Israeli paper (Haaretz?) would smuggle a real bomb onboard an El Al plane,
anyway El Al stopped flying to Stockholm because they
weren´t allowed to have their own armed guards, but
they resumed a couple of years later, they solved it
like they had to sign out a gun and then patrol the
terminal during El Al departures..
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:10 am

I wouldn't feel safe at the moment because of everyone accusing everyone else of different things...
Though the planes look nicer than before..

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Walter Pietsch



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © G. van Beek


Shame you can't get any photos from inside.
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly Wit

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:22 am

Well, I flew El Al from JFK to TLV a number of years ago, but let me tell you my experience. El Al has very strict security measures. They ask you questions about your luggage at least twice, and ask if you have any weapons or anything that can be mistaken as a weapon. The El Al departure area is very secure, and before boarding my flight, they clear the area of all passengers and move the waiting area benches to assure there are no suspicious bags, etc. I have heard that they DO have anti-missile capabilities on their aircraft, which probably means radar that detects, and I have also heard that fighter jets at least know their whereabouts when an El Al flight enters Israel...I can't confirm that, but I have heard of it. Oh, not to mention that on the take off run of any El Al flight, they have an armed security car follow the plane to make sure no one gets on or gets off during take off!
stay safe!
-Matt
That's why we're here.
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:28 am

I once heard that El Al cockpits are armored. Is it true? Maybe that will be a good way of making the airplanes land no matter what happends in the main cabin.
 
Lufthansa404
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:21 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:38 am

I heared the same about the the armed cockpits, but cant confirm it.
Any gate agent or similar that may have detected anything?

Jan
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:41 am

1.: Armoured cockpits would not help one bit. Reason: the hijackers would kill one passenger after the other until the pilot opens the door. Proof: Have bank robberies vanished with the introduction of bullet-proof glass?

2.: The FAA policy of absolutely outlawing cockpit visits does not prevent hijacks - quod erat demonstrandum.

3.: El Al style security measures can work for a single airline with 40-something planes. For the industry as a whole, this would be simply too expensive and time consuming. And, yes, OF COURSE El Al is THE safest airline - everybody with at least half a brain must agree on this.

4.: "Skymarshals" or other armed law enforcement officers are the worst thing you could do right now. In a normal "fly me to Cuba" hijack, you need to DEescalate the situation - not start a shoot-out at 30,000 feet (in a pressurized tube with only a thin layer of metal between me and... you know the drill).


Daniel
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:05 am

"4.: "Skymarshals" or other armed law enforcement officers are the worst thing you could do right now. In a normal "fly me to Cuba" hijack, you need to DEescalate the situation - not start a shoot-out at 30,000 feet (in a pressurized tube with only a thin layer of metal between me and... you know the drill"

your last point is right now quite difficult to understand, - quod erat demonstrandum.

 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:12 am

Yes, El Al does have double-sealed armoured cockpit doors that are bullet proof and inpenetrable. MSNBC has been running a stories on El Al's safely on and off all throughout the day today and yesterday.

Airsicknessbag, what are you talking about? Armoured cockpits don't work? If hijackers are on a plane, yes, armoured cockpits will not stop them for klling passengers, but it will stop them from getting into the cockpit and crashing into a skyscraper. The pilots will be able to land the plane safely, no matter what horror is happening in the passenger cabins.
a.
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:32 am

I flew EL AL business class JFK-TLV-JFK when I was younger than 7, let me tell you, I had to answer the questions for myself, my mom,grandpa(family vacation) or any other family couldn't answer for me. I think a lot has been explained above, and if you cooperate with them, you will be okay. The gate areas are secured and I couldn't feel safer on any other airline.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: MAH4546

Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:32 pm


>>>Airsicknessbag, what are you talking about? Armoured cockpits don't work? If hijackers are on a
plane, yes, armoured cockpits will not stop them for klling passengers, but it will stop them from
getting into the cockpit and crashing into a skyscraper. The pilots will be able to land the plane
safely, no matter what horror is happening in the passenger cabins.


Well, I´m talking about the "normal" hijacking - the hijacker has a demand, and if that is not met, he´ll blow the plane up. Pilots are trained, and rightly so, to do what the hijacker wants, to eventually bring an end to the situation without bloodshed. Show me one pilot who cold-bloodedly would let the hijackers kill the passengers while he is safe and cosy behind his armoured cockpit door, flying the plane safely into the nearest airport.

Bank hold-ups are the best example - after the introduction of bullet-proof glass, the trend just shifted from simple robberies to taking hostages.

Daniel
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:26 pm

Airsicknessbag
"Show me one pilot who cold-bloodedly would let the hijackers kill the passengers while he is safe and cosy behind his armoured cockpit door, flying the plane safely into the nearest airport."

-ANY pilot would try to fly the plane safely to the nearest airport!!!!!!!!!! What else could be his goal??! Haven't you heard what happened on September 11th?..

"Bank hold-ups are the best example - after the introduction of bullet-proof glass, the trend just shifted from simple robberies to taking hostages."

-the danger of a bank crashing into skyscrapers isn't too high...



 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:33 pm

>>>-ANY pilot would try to fly the plane safely to the nearest airport!!!!!!!!!! What else could be his goal??!
Haven't you heard what happened on September 11th?..

This is somehow a moot discussion - I say no he would NOT, next thing you´re going to do is say "SURE he would".

Let´s hope neither of us is ever proven to be correct.

But I maintain my point anyway - it´s just human nature. And ethics. This is not the point where you can start arguing with "better safe than sorry" - if "safe" means execution of passengers (or plane blown up right now.)

Daniel
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:44 pm

1. in what could ONE pilot better neutralize a group of terrorists than the crew + pax could together?!

2. September 11th's so horrible events have proved the dangers occuring if suicide terrorists get in the cockpit; and suicide terror is dramatically rising...

3. concerning the "safety": what is better: 1)some or all pax + crew killed/injured AND 2) pilots killed AND 3) many (THOUSANDS) people killed on the ground
OR make everything to avoid the occurance of risk No 2 and 3 by landing safely the plane??
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:58 pm


1.: A pilot´s job is not to neutralize the hijacker(s). Look at past hijacks - lots of planes would have crashed that way when they were eventually saved.

2.: Another point where we simply have to agree we disagree. I regard Tuesday´s events as absolutely unique.

3.: My point was: you say "better safe (i.e. kill the pax, but don´t let the hijacker in the cockpit) than sorry (i.e. crash on the Empire State Building killing thousands)". I say you can´t weigh the 100 % risk of getting pax killed against a slim to non-existant chance of Tuesday´s events being repeated.

Daniel
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 10:36 pm

"...a slim to non-existant chance of Tuesday´s events being repeated."

you're very optimistic, let's hope you're right! but I greatly fear you're not.

Tuesday's horrific tragedy is indeed unique, untill now. but why couldn't it happen again?
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:48 pm


"Oh, not to mention that on the take off run of any El Al flight, they have an armed security car follow the plane to make sure no one gets on or gets off during take off!"

Are you serious ? That has to be the second best job in the world (I have a hobby of driving really fast anyways --I post regulaly on the Chevy LS1 site--).

Also, here is a dumb question. What does EL AL stand for? For all the debates we've had on the subject of Isreal in general I was hoping someone (ahem, toda), would know the answer. It is something I have actually been curious of for a quite a bit now.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Tue Sep 18, 2001 1:14 am

Hi

all politics aside, and as already partly mentioned by other forum members, it is true that El AL is one of the most safe airliners in terms of securtiy, however one should not forget what this procedure means. First, you can never copy the security measures onto big carrirs with 100plus planes and large hub traffic which El Al Simply don't have. Second, commercial aviation is to make money and if you copy these procedures you can't survive in an open market industry like aviation because you will be to costly.

One thingis for sure, you can't have 100% security! and even if what about a tiered engine or a human error caused by a pilot who afterall is a humanbeing!

Best regards
Amir
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Tue Sep 18, 2001 5:22 am

El Al is Hebrew..the rough translation is '..to the skies'

 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Tue Sep 18, 2001 6:48 am

I'm with toda. After Tuesday, pilots (El Al in particular) will never open the cockpit during hijackings. The threat now is very clear and very real and capable of being replicable. It will be hard to hear people being slaughtered behind you, but its the absolute most prudent thing to do.

TNNH

Shana Tova.

EL AL: "to the sky" in Hebrew.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Tue Sep 18, 2001 9:22 am

EL AL may very well be the world's safest airline with the most stringent security measures and should be
applauded for it, but honestly, the EL AL formula will
not work for the US Airline Industry. EL AL is a small
carrier with about 25-30 aircraft and a limited route
network although EL AL planes span the globe. The
airline spends hundreds of millions on security and
US carriers will probably look to the government
and ultimately, the military to provide the kind of
security required to prevent terrorists from commit-
ing unspeakeable acts of horror as occured last week.

In an ironic twist, I once got an amenity kit from a
friend who had flown EL AL from Tel Aviv to JFK.
The kit contained a toe nail clipper, cuticle pointer,
and a nail file among other things....All the security
in the world cannot stop a madman from using such
devices, especially when the airline provides it to
its highest paying passengers.

ContinentalEWR
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:36 am

To those who answered my question...thank you so much. You have no idea how long taht has been sticking like a nail in the back of my mind...


Cheers
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Guest

RE: El Al Voted The Most Safest Airline To Fly With!

Wed Sep 19, 2001 10:16 pm

litterally, el al means "to the above"

btw, the Israeli Gvt pays 80% of El-Al's and private owned Israeli airlines' security expenses. (as far as I know; if El Al 001 aka Michael was here, he could better answer than me...)