king air
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 8:38 am

Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 6:18 am

After the Egypt Air crash I asked why real time cameras could not be in cockpits. My thining was this Every passenger plane should have a camera feeding live video to a person who would watch all the in flight activities from the ground
Abunch of so called pilots from this forum said I was ignorant and they could never help in any way. They said they would not like to work with some one looking over there shoulder. Aweak excuse.
may be it is time for cameras now. They may in fact save lives. If there had been a camera we would have better knowledge of what went on and how to prevent it.
I know people will say they mihgt destroy the camera but may be not.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:36 am

I don't understand the resistance to cockpit cameras... here's my rationale (as I stated before when we were talking about spotting options).

99.99999999% of pilots would never do something illegal. So what's the big objection to being monitored?

Those who don't want to be monitored, especially after this, have something to hide as far as I'm concerned.
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:41 am

I understand that pilots might not want to be watched over during a flight. It's not because they have something to hide, they probably just don't want to be looked at all the time. I wouldn't. I think a good solution to this would be to monitor every flight, but not to have someone looking at the footage all of the time. If something happens, then people can look at the footage and see what happened. Cameras would be a good idea though.
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:12 am

Once more....a good idea for CNN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one of you are pilots ....so ..... don't come back with stupid things.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:51 am

CVR where meant to be kept confidential, but now we hear the news reporters read the transcripts on TV and speculate what the pilots did. Can you imagine what it would be like for families of the flight crews that crashed, when they see their family members picture on the TV with the reporting talking drivel.
Iain
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:55 am

Agreed, Iain. That would be awful. Still, the risk may justify an action to place cameras in cockpits.

Maybe not even full-motion, but snapshots every 15 seconds perhaps? That would be easier to save over a length of time on a FDR-like device as full-motion video can get big.

As for Airplanetire's comments, I agree also, but there are plenty of other professions where the people involved are on tape all day -- bank tellers come to mind. This may become just one of those things that 'comes with the territory' of the job.

The bottom line is that we are going to have a hard, lengthy debate in the US, and perhaps globally, over the balance of giving up some liberties for the good of the many, and I, for one, am ready to bargain.
 
king air
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 8:38 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:08 am

SPITFIRE WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF For a long haul pilot you have a lot of posts in a short time. are you realy a pilot most people who post that much can't be active pilots.
Lain get a life and get away frome the computer for a while. There is life in the outside world.
 
sunilgupta
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:14 am

Why not put the camera over the crews head looking back at the door. That way you can see who is coming and going but not what the crew is actually up to.
 
RC Pilot
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 11:21 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:25 am

King Air. You dont know weather or not he is a pilot or not.

He might get on during his layovers or something. Im sure he has had many of them.

Plus most pilots get 15 days off a month anyway. and they can only fly 100 hours a month.

so he's had plenty of time to post 160+ posts

im not mad or trying to sound rude. please dont take this the wrong way.

RC
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:25 am

Not only do I support cameras but armed airmarshals 2 or 3 per flight as well as stronger cockpit doors.
"FUIMUS"
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:35 am

I've had a lot of posts as well. Does that mean that I am not a pilot?

I think cockpit cameras would have much less resistance if there was an 'erase' button on it, much like the CVR does. Many pilots are scared that management will download the information from it and use it against them for using the wrond procedures, or putting the flaps out one or two knots too fast or something. many airlines, like my own download FDR information to see if there are any safety trends that need to be addressed, e.g. People rotating too slowly on the 777-300. This has not been used against individual pilots, but there is a possibility that if could be. CVRs add to some people's paranoia, and I have often flown with captains that ask me to erase the CVR after a flight. It is these same people that would not want themselves to be filmed.
 
spk
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:56 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 12:53 pm

FDR should not be eraseable by pilots since it does not violate their privacy.

CVR and the video camera should have an erase button that can be use when the aircraft is on the ground and engine turned off.
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:18 pm

Dear King Air,

I can assure you I am an Airline Pilot on long haul (12000 flight hours and A340/330 qualification). As RC pilot said I have , between my duties, rest times at home or abroad. By the way I suffer ,as any long haul pilots, also from jet lag, so you can see my posts at any moment.
And to answer your question, I feel, like most of the real pilots, that the cockpit is a private area, where we should be left in peace . There are enough systems in the airplanes to check what we have done and said at a certain moment of the flight ( data recorders and cockpit voice recorder). More over, with Acars system every seconds of our flight can be analyse, live, by our company .
We should be able to eat our meals, read a newspaper during the cruise,have some rest (one at the time of course) or just talk together without a camera pointed to us. And yes we have time during cruise to read a newspaper !!!! That does not jeoparadize the safety of the flight.
To try to represent you what it can be to stay in a cockpit for about 9 to 10 hours, just sit on a chair in front of your TV screen, with a "blank" screen and put you radio on FM band between two stations ( with the "white noise"- for those how knows what i mean...) and stay ther for let's say 4 hours. Then report us what you felt.
Rgds.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:49 pm

King Air, my concerns about this are what the majority of pilots are affraid of (aswell as what CX flyboy mentioned). I do not have a TV where I am now, so I vegeitate infront of my computer in my spare time. I find your outburst something that a 14 year old spoiled kid would write, and if you are really a screenwriter, I suggest you learn to spell!

I think if the FAA had kept all CVR transcripts private more people would be willing to have a camera in the cockpit. However in the lastest case remember when the transcripts where realised for the SW aircraft that ran of the runway, how the media used it against the pilot. Can you imagine what they would do with a video!
Iain
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:16 pm

Many pilots are scared that management will download the information from it and use it against them for using the wrond procedures, or putting the flaps out one or two knots too fast or something. many airlines, like my own download FDR information to see if there are any safety trends that need to be addressed, e.g. People rotating too slowly on the 777-300.

Hey, I have no respect for pilots who don't fly by the book. These are not Cessnas: these are large passenger transports.

When someone has a responsibility to act in the best interests of hundreds of other people, and when one critical location (the cockpit) can make or break some other people, monitoring is definitely needed. None of this 'erase' nonsense.

I don't think an airline would fire someone for resting, or for chatting, but if there's a case where someone is consistently and knowingly violating procedures, then they have no right to be in the cockpit responsible for the lives of passengers and other crew. Period.

Realistically, if all flights were recorded, there wouldn't be enough people to review all of the tapes, anyway. Nowhere even close. Spot checking? Sure. I see precisely zero wrong with that.

Sorry to say, but some higher-profile professions give up a little privacy for the responsibility they bear. Pilots are one of these.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cameras In Cockpit

Sun Sep 16, 2001 12:03 am

Flashmeister,

I agree fully that anyone who cannot operate properly and safely should not be in the cockpit. However, every pilot makes small mistakes. Not mistakes threatening the safety of the aircraft, but small mistakes. Perhaps being a little slow to react to turbulence and windshear and exceeding a flap speed slightly as a result. Nothing too serious, but nonetheless, something which the management could get you for. Some pilots are paranoid about things like this.
Do you drive? Have you ever got a speeding/parking ticket? Not completely stopped your car at a STOP sign? Overtaken on the inside lane of a highway? Probably. We all make mistakes. Perhaps we should have our licences banned forever. Or we can learn from those mistakes and drive slower, park properly etc...
All Cathay pilots fly by the book, if they don't, then they should be reviewed. However, that doesn't mean that small mistakes cannot be and aren't made, and making pilots paranoid constantly about repercussions in case they do something can lead to a degredation of safety. I have seen this. Some are so paranoid they are letting it affect operations. Further scaremongering will not help.

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