sfointern
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Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:28 am

This conclusion is easy come to up with if you use logic, intuition, and just plain common sense.

a) The image of a blue and grey plan slamming into WTC#2 over and over again, constanly being replayed on television, to eyes worldwide.

b) Close ups of the plane with very distinguishable features of the United livery is accompanied by screaming, flames, etc.

c) No other air disaster in history has had the magnitude and effect of this awful, awful happening. Not only does this affect our humanity, economy, and lifestyle-- it affects our idea of security in this world.

d) ALL this sadness, outrage, and tragedy will be forever lumped together with the live footage of UA#175 slamming into the tower. Over and over again.

This senseless replay of such a horrific sight is not good for the psyche. Pyschologists advise to keep from watching such images of destruction repeatedly. The media doesn't care about mental health, unfortantely-- only about ratings and advertising profit$.

American will not have as much of an image problem considering there was very little footage of AA#11.

I know this is a very morbid subject, but just want to show how this is a public relations nightmare for the airlines, in addition to being a universal nightmare in the firstplace.
 
sfointern
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:31 am

Of course, this hinges on United's financial stability and "forecast for existence".

Please don't say United "is not even thinking about this right now" due to their precarious financial situation and focus on simple recovery; you can bet that if United is hedging on its survival, this is one of their top priorities.

As precedent...TWA applied its new livery expediently soon after horrible images of flight 800.

Those images come nowhere close to the sheer terror of watching UA#175 in real time.
 
Delta_Fan
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:34 am

I hera what you are saying SFO , but with all the economic issues i don't think UA will change its livery ,,,,well at least not rigth now.


Delta_fan.
MTY
 
BA
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:41 am

Livery means everything to you, doesn't it?

Changing the livery will really not improve anything much. And UA is not that stupid to spend millions of dollars on changing its livery when they are in serious financial problems.

These days pax don't care much about livery. Look at BA, they're reputation was ruined the day they started the World Tails. It got many criticisms, and now they are going to repaint all there aircraft to the Union Jack tail.

It isn't going to happen. UA's livery is the LEAST thing on there mind now.....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gjunnar
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:46 am

hey guys,
where are the sources for your discussions?
gjunnar
 
B-HOP
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:48 am

Yes, I love the old one, it make me depressed since TUes
Live life to max!!!
 
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spinkid
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BA

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:52 am

I think you missed his point. While the British Airways logo may have been ugly it wasn't associated with one of it's planes slamming into a building amidst screams of horror.
While I think it's premature to speculate on whether or not United will change it's livery. I see the relevance of it. It's part of why Valujet took the AirTran name when they merged.

Perhaps American will consider going with the TWA name after the merger  Smile

 
BA
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:04 am

Spinkid,

UA is in financial problems, they are not going to spend millions to change there livery. If they did, it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference.

Someone who is paranoid of UA now, will always be paranoid even when the livery is changed. Look at TWA after flight 800. They changed there livery, yet they still suffered and are now owned by AA.

Its been proven, changing liveries doesn't do much, not nearly worth the cost of changing the livery on all aircraft.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:17 am

BA....

You don't seem to understand the discussion here and are clearly in over your head.

Go back and read SFOintern's posts again.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:24 am

I agree with BA. They don't have the money to pay for it - and if they did then the would do what Valujet did and go as far as changing their name.

And what about American? They too are closely associated with this terrible event - should they also change their livery? No more polished fuselages?

I don't think so, some how.
 
BA
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:28 am

DeltaSFO,

I read his replies thoroughly. As we all have learned from TWA, livery change does not change the reputation of an airline much at all.

I'm sorry but I disagree 100%.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:31 am

TWA introduced the new scheme in July 1995, TWA 800 crashed July 17, 1996.
 
sfointern
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:42 am

Celidh-- Read what I mention about AA again...

BA... you may have your own opinion, but there was no need to be excessively rude about it. Especially in a time like this.

Also, BA, your statement about BA seems to prove wrong yoru theory about liveries. On the contrary, because their livery was so reviled, they adopted a universal--new--Union Jack scheme. Why are you contradicting yourself there?

N757AT... yes, but IIRC TW hastened the repaints afterwards. ...TWA applied its new livery expediently
 
tsully
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For Your 411

Sun Sep 16, 2001 7:37 am

just for your information, UAL has been planning to change her livery even before this massacre occured. A new identity was in the making long before this tragedy. In particular, note the new y-class seats which are replacing the old gray seats.

But I will agree that UAL has more reason now to change her look.

I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:14 am

for sure,changing the livery will change everything,because people are too stupid and not that clever.
you can see the answers.

bst rgds
 
OH-LGA
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:24 am

Yes, I definately see a new livery change coming... you try and disassociate the airline as quickly as possible, and a new livery is the best way to do it. Of course they have been moving in that direction for quite some time before 9/11, but this will just speed up the process (a la TWA).

Does this mean we'll be getting new uniforms or what? I mean, I just ordered mine a week ago, they haven't even come yet... and just a note at SkyWest/UAX we only have had 3 cancelled flights as of when I left work 2 and a half hours ago. Delays are more numerous, but most are going out on time.

Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 9:36 am

In this case, I think both AA and UA should need a new livery.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:00 pm

Morbidity (I made that word up) aside, I think that, IF BOTH AIRLINES SURVIVE (big if) then both will change liveries as a sign of moving on with our nation.

I never thought we might lose these airlines, the world's two biggest, but then I never thought Continental would lay off 12,000 with Northwest doing the same thing on Monday.

Folks, what is happening to us?

Randy
 
Dasa
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 1:41 pm

I think United will change their livery. A person by his/herself is clever. People as a whole are stupid. Therefore, people will associate these liveries with terror, and will act accordingly.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:16 pm

b) Close ups of the plane with very distinguishable features of the United livery is accompanied by screaming, flames, etc.

Where have you seen this? Are you talking about actual photos/video or are you talking about the graphics depicting the events that have been shown on some of the news channels?

I've looked at lots of pictures and seen (and taped) about 25 hours of TV coverage since this incident began and I have not seen one single picture or video where you can actually identify the plane as belonging to United. In most of the shots, the plane just appears as a black silhouette. In the one photo where you see the plane right before it hits (shown here)

http://www.volkskrant.com/WTC/WTC5.jpg

how can you tell it is one of UA's planes? I don't see any "very distinguishable features of the United livery". All I see is a silver plane. Is there a photo I've missed?

Personally, I'd rather have United (and AA, too, for that matter) use the money to hire well paid security screeners instead of contracting it out to these firms that pay people $6.00 an hour who most likely will be gone in three months for a better job. JMHO.

LoneStarMike

 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:31 pm

SFOIntern, I think your theory is right on the money. Don't be surprised to see a new UA livery in the near future. A complete and total change, with no more reworking of the 1974 stylized "U" or anything like that.

How are you doing out in SFO? All of you UA and AA employees have had my specific prayers all week. I never thought I'd see the day I was in church near tears thinking about what Jim Goodwin's life was like.

Could you imagine what it would be like, if UA were trying to digest US right now? Oy vey.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
TWA717_200
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:42 pm

I have another observation. In many cases where an airplane remains largely intact after a crash, the airline will hastily paint over any lettering on that aircraft. This is done despite the fact that the livery is easily recognized and the name of the airline has been mentioned a thousand times by the press.

Personally, I believe that UAL will change it's livery in light of recent events.
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:51 pm

UAL will not change their livery... They cant afford it, they have more important things to worry about than some paint on an airplane. Get a clue. UAL and many other airlines will be lucky to survive. You are only going to see 2-3 major airlines after all this.

 
milesrich
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:48 am

UA has many more things much more important to spend limited cash on than repainting airplanes. They may change their livery but it will be a slow process, only repainting the aircraft as the time to do comes up. Not that they would listen to me, but they should go back to the classic Late 50's - through early 70's Block lettering Red/White/Blue patriotic scheme with the single cheatline on the windows and the angled stripe on the tail. It looked great on the Boeing 720 so why wouldnt look good on the A-320 or 737's. And the revised four star livery looked good on the 747's and DC-10's.
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:18 am

The future of both AA and UA operations will not be affected by their livery but by their names.

That's what stay's in people's minds, not a livery..
remember Pan AM.

regards, PH
 
RoyalDutch
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:19 am

Sad...I always like United's livery (their old one was kinda nice too), but i see how it makes sense.
 
jaysit
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:00 am

Please don't make a ridiculous pronouncement such as that in a title when you have no evidence.
The average American has nary a clue what aircraft, or often, what airline he or she is on. The sight of a blue-bellied plane slamming into the WTC will not cause a PR disaster for UA. United has a 500+ fleet and painting planes costs $$$$ which the beleagured airline industry has little of. What next? Will all airlines systematically rid their fleets of 767s and 757s?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ILUV767
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery So

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:07 am

SFOintern hit the nail on the head. In newspapers across the United states there are pictures of a United 767, and in the video's that are being replayed over and over again, it is a United 767. I can tell which airline the video and the photo's are. Rebranding, and creating a new image is something that is going to have to be done in order for survival.

I L U V 7 6 7
 
blink182
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:26 am

In this case, I think American and United should both get new liveries. I like both schemes, but I think it would only do better for both airlines if they created a new color scheme.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
flashmeister
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:32 am

Again, the difference between AA and UA is that there's very limited video with AA's livery in it -- I've only seen one video of the first plane.

UA's livery was shown and again and again, from every possible angle.

What we haven't seen yet, if it exists, is rubble with the UA or AA logo on it. If someone comes up with a piece of fuselage, or the rudder with the logo, sitting in the WTC rubble, that will be startling enough for the PR folks to scream for a change.

Airlines, to lay people, are largely the same -- people choose on convienience and reputation. Neither UA nor AA can afford that reputation.

Aaron
 
imkeww
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:22 am

feel free to take...

 
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RayChuang
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:30 am

I don't think either airline is going to change their liveries soon.

The reason is simple: it costs serious amounts of money to repaint an airplane--especially a fleet numbering in the hundreds.

Now, AA going back to its 1960's second-generation Astrojet livery isn't so far-fetched since it doesn't involve a massive repainting of the whole fleet.
 
imkeww
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:40 am

Ray--

Please don't confuse your own preferences for being "not so far-fetched"...

If you think going back to Astrojets doesn't involve a massive repainting of the whole fleet, well it is just the same as repainting the aircraft in whatever scheme you want to repaint it in.

Repainting an aircraft involves stripping the aircraft skin of all paints and sealants -- even AA's metal protectant/preservant.

On the issue of money: ostensibly, UA has had a new livery in final design. Whether they would want to apply it separately from D-checks is their decision. However, the marginal costs of modifying the paint lines to a new livery would be insignificant.

A new livery *is* coming, whether it will be applied as slowly as the current one (only during D-checks), or as a special project 'Continental Makeover Style' is up to your guess.

The last plane to be painted into the current livery rolled out in 1999.
 
Guest

RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:11 pm

SFOintern, whats your source? Is it at SFO? Maybe Ill ask whoever it is when I fly through there on Tuesday. LMAO.

I dont believe it for a second.
 
Cap'n Dan
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TWA717_200

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:18 pm

TWA: I'm pretty sure that when an aircraft has its lettering painted over after a crash it is for insurance purposes. I think it has something to do with the written-off aircraft becoming property of the insurance company.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:40 pm

Flashmeister

Again, the difference between AA and UA is that there's very limited video with AA's livery in it -- I've only seen one video of the first plane.

I've seen the one video of AA 11 crashing into the WTC, too, but you cant see the livery. You don't see the red, white and blue stripes and you don't see the AA logo on the tail. All you see is a tiny silver plane (beacuse the camera only zoomed in after the aircraft had penetrated the building to show the smoke and flames).

UA's livery was shown and again and again, from every possible angle.

United's plane was shown from every angle again and again, but in none of the pictures (that I've seen) do you see the words "United" or see the stylized "U" on the tail.

Imkeww

The last plane to be painted into the current livery rolled out in 1999.

I'm confused. Has United not received any new planes from Boeing since 1999? If they have, then those planes would be rolling out in the current livery.

LoneStarMike

 
sfointern
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:02 pm

Boeing757fan...

I stated I had no particular source. Go back and read the first line of my post. We'll see who's eating crow in the coming months. Mock me all you want.

Lonestarmike

That statement should imply that the last plane to be painted into the current livery in 1999 was the last *old colours* to be painted into the current scheme.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:06 pm

OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification, SFOIntern.

LoneStarMike

 
AAR90
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:50 pm

>Repainting an aircraft involves stripping the aircraft skin of all
>paints and sealants -- even AA's metal protectant/preservant.

Sorry, but AA airplanes have no protectant/preservant on them. It is polished aluminum.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
kevin
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:09 pm

The tragedy that took place and involved a United aircraft is not the reason to change the livery. For us (who understand something in aviation) the crashed airliner is a United Airlines Boeing 767-200. For most of the people around the world it is an aircraft of a certain airline. They do not really care about it.

The airliners that were involved are not chosen by chance. American airlines , speaks for itself AMERICAN and asd for United it has a word from the name of the country UNITED STATES.
 
sfointern
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:18 pm

AAR90--

I understand it is polished aluminum, but is not there some sort of wax or anti-corrosion substance applied when buffing?

Where is Purdue Arrow when you need him???

 
voodoo
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What About American AL?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 10:16 pm

Sorry if someone else has already mentioned it in the many posts above but:
`What about American?'
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Greg
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery Soon

Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:14 pm

Pretty petty. Who cares if they change their colours.
However, after looking a the pictures, it's damn difficult to see that it's a United Plane. All the pics are too blury.

Why would you spend millions rebranding when you can't make payroll???
 
Teej13
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RE: Public Relations: United Will Change Livery So

Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:16 pm

Also consider all of the file footage of United and AA jets that have been shown to the public by the media over the last week. I say it's a good investment. Shows consumers that they're a new and improved product - could definitely put positive light on the new safety procedures. Remember though - UA and AA did nothing wrong - the FAA is the one who sets the bar.

T.J.