777kicksass
Topic Author
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 9:52 pm

Airbus May Suffer?

Sun Sep 16, 2001 7:34 pm

Boeing have income from their various military projects but do you think that Airbus may suffer from the recent events or will that only affect the US market?
 
Guest

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:57 am

They will most likely have orders cancelled by US carriers as I don't think they will be buying any new airplanes for some time. LH may postpone their airbus orders.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:04 am

I doubt the airlines will cancel their orders but delivery will be delayed for a long time.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:05 am

Airbus is not government owned, my friend!
Airbus is owned by:
EADS (French/German/Spanish) for 80%
BAe (British) for the remaining 20%
Both companies are (partially) listed on the european stock exchanges so if you want even you can buy a share of them, thus a share of Airbus!
 
GDB
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Yyz717

Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:21 am

Hate to disappoint you, but the first carriers showing real signs of problems are AA and CO, who have exclusive contracts with Boeing. If a European carrier did the same with Airbus you'd whine like hell.
Still, US carriers may get a big goverment cash injection, if things get really bad some European airlines may get a boost too, but we're dirty lowdown pinko commies aren't we?
I suspect your rather nationalistic, protectionist and rather ignorant view of things are about to be turned on it's head.
Anyone who thinks that the industry would prosper with just ONE manufacter i.e. Boeing, has no idea about the commercial, political and technical factors which have produced the aircraft we all fly in.
 
dee-see-eit
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 8:44 pm

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:31 am

Airbus will surely suffer from this new situation, which is affecting not only USA, but the whole world. If a war starts, things will just go worse.

To say that "They (Airbus) have nothing to worry about unfortunately" is really unfortunate anyway.

DC8

 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:34 am

Everyone suffer when the market goes down, as I already stated in the A380 project many sub contractors are investing money and so its not only airbus that finance a new airplane...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
M27
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:28 am

I'm not sure how an infusion of government money into US airlines helps only Boeing. Somehow, I get the feeling that GDB is against such a move though!

I do seem to remember some whining going on when Boeing signed some exclusive contracts in the past. Does anyone else remember that? I think maybe this whining got those contracts negated.

I'm not sure what my ignorant, protectionist, and nationalistic view means in this case, but if it means that the US Aviation industry is finally going to get some help like its European counterparts have been, then I most certainly hope I am turned on my head.

The only problem is that I have not seen any mention of direct aid to Boeing out of all of this. Maybe the government could give them a "loan" on the development of the SC. This would only be fair don't you think?

I wonder if US Air, Northwest and America West will get any of this Government Aid. Hey, what about Frontier and JETBLUE?
GDB, do you hope these Airlines will get any of the money? Is there any US airlines that you think should not get any of the money? What about American, Delta, Continental?

So yes, Boeing will suffer from this! You seem to say that Airbus won't and that you hated to disappoint the topic poster. Well, its my thought that if Airbus doesn't suffer, its because they get government help (both US and EU in this case) and you should really be glad for that!



 
RJ_Delta
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:17 am

RE: Sabenapilot

Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:49 am

Sabenapilot:

You are right, however Airbus still receiving a goverment subsidy.

RJ_Delta.
 
GDB
Posts: 12678
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

M27

Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:47 am

No, I'm not against help for US carriers, this is an unpredented situation.
I just wanted to point out the double-standards of some on this site.
The SC already has got govt. cash, through NASA research, but that is what is sometimes required.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 7:02 am

RJ_Delta,

Well yes, but that's our right to do so!

In fact, Boeing always tries very hard to make everybody believe it is unfair competition and illegal subsidies, but in fact it is part of a larger European program to give government aid to companies producing highly competitive products within the E.U.

As you probably know, taxes are much higher in the E.U then in the USA, thus resulting in an unfavourable economical position for manufacturors in Europe.
Rather then to cut taxes in a blind and general operation, the E.U. has a policy of helping those companies which suffer the most from this.

Mind you, this is not often mentioned, but even forgeign companies can benefit from it! Toyota for instance receives millions every year, which keeps them from shifting production to overseas.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 7:13 am

Wait a sec! U.S. airlines will not be getting aid from the U.S. government.

According to official sources (I saw members of the Senate being interviewed about this), this money is compensation for their loss of business due to the FAA grounding their fleet and for the extra costs involved in carrying out the FAA's new directives. This is certainly not a bailout, or any form of aid.

In a free market society, no company gets "aid" from the government. Well, at least not officially.

 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Airbus May Suffer?

Mon Sep 17, 2001 7:33 am

Let's just clarify a few things. The US airlines (might) get aid from the US government, for the loss of earnings caused by government actions (the grounding and future security measures). Boeing recieves money from the government for government projects, but nothing else. EADS and BAe Systems *DO* get subsidies from EU governments. This is fact. You have to scrutinise government financial reports but they DO get subsidies. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the US government would bail Boeing out if it got into serious trouble, but the fact is, Airbus has that extra safety net that Boeing doesn't have.

Regards.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

HKGspotter1

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:55 pm

You have definately reiterated the definition of ignorance.

This is nor the place or time for an Airbus-Boeing debate.

I unfortunately have been sucked in. Most Middle East countries are now flying Airbus. They will suffer economic sanctions if they do not support the coalition and do support terrorism. Boeing has a very strong military product line. From choppers to bombers Boeing has it. History has a way of repeating it's self. WWII had the Boeing B-17, Vietnam had the Boeing B-52, The Gulf War aircraft all had Boeing components on them.

Please refrain from making ignorant statements unless you have facts. Speculation does not cut it in aviation!
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: HKGspotter1

Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:57 pm

P.S. UPS Airbus orders are going to be deferred. The first UPS MD-11 is in test flights now.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3925
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: HKGspotter1

Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:41 pm

Just one question: how do you call the US gouvernment development aids for Boeing and NASA? Most of them were for military projects but a lot has been redirected to civil programms, often in indirect ways. Airbus is getting help from gouvernents for developing some parts of their projects, yes, but even the US gouvernment agrees on them!! As someone already said, here are doubble-standarts applied.
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