jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

What Does This Mean For The A380?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:01 am

After this terrible tragedy, what will happen to the orders of the A380? Even if the original orders go through, the options could be dropped too, which would be very unprofitable for Airbus.
Anyone heard anything?
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:52 am

 
airbus380
Posts: 1575
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:50 am

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:56 am

History. It is gone. Another Concordski.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: A380 Future / Bush Politics?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 5:01 pm


The A380 will fly in 2005, (or was it 2004?) and enter revenue service in 2006, unless schedules slip or are postponed (again).

The present crisis won't last even a month, despite Bush's attempts to prolong it and call it a war. Bush may be able to provoke a war with Afganistan, but that won't affect projects like the A380 - it's unlikely the Taliban could have afforded one anyway. Afanistan consists of mountains and religious fire.

I don't understand why Bush is doing what he is inless he specifically wants to act "historical" and get involved in a huge bloodbath ("wag the dog" anyone?). The Taliban have said that they'll hand bin Laden over if there's evidence of his complicity. So far, there's no direct evidence linking bin Laden (personally, as opposed to his very large and loose organization) to the attacks. A cell within the al-Queda could have launched last week's attack without bin Laden being personally involved at all. So why is the Bush administration demanding bin Laden's immediate extradition unless they specifically want to aggravate the situation? It took 10 years of meticulous work to piece together what happened over Lockerbie.

The American media is demonstrating total incomptence in playing uncritically into the Bush administration's hands in this affair. In my humble opinion, Bush was completely incompetent when he was "elected", and he hasn't suddenly turned into a geopolitical genius after that either. If he is ready to send thousands or tens of thousands to their deaths from the safety of his Oval Office in order to boost his domestic political standing, then what should we call that?

 
M27
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am

RE: A380 Future / Bush Politics?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:31 pm

Joni:

So glad you have everything figured out! Are you going to be moving to Afghanistan soon?

Just to keep this aviation related, with your great insight and knowledge of how the A380 is going to fair in the future, please tell us about the Sonic Cruiser. Also Joni, which do you like best, Boeing or Airbus?
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: A380 Future / Bush Politics?

Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:57 pm


M27,

How did you get the impression I was moving and, of all places, to Afganistan?

Regarding the airplanes you mentioned, I think the A380 will be a mass market success and bring a hefty profit to Airbus, but only over time. Things need to be seen in context and this plane solidifies Airbus's product line and thus helps them sell other planes, too.

The Sonic Cruiser carries a larger technical risk and with its anticipated higher operating costs is aimed at a smaller segment of the overall market. There is also still doubt whether or not Boeing is seriously pursuing this plane at all. Another issue is the higher fuel consumption, which will (at least in Europe) label the plane as immoral in the eyes of consumers since they expect new designs to be more, not less, environmentally friendly. However, if it's introduced I'll definitely want to fly it.

I like to observe Airbus and Boeing bicker over orders, it's easily as entertaining as a Swedish soap. (and those guys make tv soap with a capital S) I'm not personally affiliated in any way with either company. Perhaps I'm rooting for Airbus a bit more due to Boeing's smug attitude in their various communications.

 
fishmeal
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 1:40 am

RE: Joni

Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:24 am

I guess some people still don't get it. People have figured out how to use passenger jets as tactical weapons of war. This is bigger than any one airline, country, or manufacturer. Things won't go back to normal in a month. The world has changed. Get used to it.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:05 am

Joni...you must be smoking some real wacky tobacky!
 
Sonic
Posts: 1505
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 3:10 am

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:39 am

Well, I also have my opinion on the 9/11 attacks, but I will not stay it here. Let's back to A380...

At the start I didn't thought A380 will sell well. I think this airliner is a bit too big. However, this crisis will not make it sell any worse/better. I don't think crisis will be here for more than 6 months, I am not speaking about almost 6 years.
 
Guest

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:51 am

M27 and King767,

I find your responses to Joni's posts rediculously aggressive and unneccessary. I happen to agree with what he says to a large extent, and I think anyone thinking with his brains instead of his steroids and emotions will feel the same way about this. Though the 'revenge' path many Americans, including Bush, seem to prefer is very understandable and a normal human reaction, it is not the best way to solve these problems.

As for the A380: It will enter service 5 years from now. Something tells me that by then most people will be over last week's scare... The passengers will not stay away forever, you know...
 
Guest

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 7:32 am

I haven't read the replies  Big grin I think this very much has the potential to kill the A380, or at least kill its market. One week ago there were prediations of HUGE future aviation growth. Now for some years aviation will be on the decline, and certainly no pax will allow himself to get on a plane that holds 800 people. Imagine that crashing into the WTC. That will be the image on passenger's minds for a long time. Maybe in 40 years....
 
M27
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am

RE: Joni

Wed Sep 19, 2001 8:43 am

Juul:

Gosh, I'm so sorry that I got so aggressive without any reason. I guess I just got over emotional when I read that the President was doing all that he is doing for political reasons, and that the entire American press is totaly incompetant. You and Joni have said this is so, therefore it must be correct!

Its strange, because I thought President Bush was doing a tremendous job until I was enlightened by you and Joni. Listening to you two, I'm about to decide that all that has happen is due to the fact that America put a couple of buildings in the way of some guys that were learning to fly. I also learned that what I had always termed justice is really called revenge. You know, I thought what those people did at the WTC
was murder, but, I suspect that I'm going to be told that is wrong.

Its sad that this post got so far off topic, and I must admit I contributed to that, but then when someone uses it to express their ideology and politics when no one had asked for it, then I feel it is ok to respond.

I can only think that You and Joni are so afraid that this tragedy will affect your beloved A380 that you lash out at anything. Just think, now if the A380 doesn't make it, you can always blame America(I know you would't blame the terrorists) instead of having to say Airbus made a mistake. Oh, I made a mistake, I know you would never say Airbus made a mistake, but now you don't have to look hard for some other reason!

Juul I respect your wright to your opinion and you expressed it in a semi nice way. I have tried to express mine as nicely as I can and still get across what I mean. I fear we will never agree about any of this, so I expect this to be my last post under this topic and am sorry that it really is not about the topic.
 
Guest

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 10:43 am

"M27 and King767,

I find your responses to Joni's posts rediculously aggressive and unneccessary. I happen to agree with what he says to a large extent, and I think anyone thinking with his brains instead of his steroids and emotions will feel the same way about this. Though the 'revenge' path many Americans, including Bush, seem to prefer is very understandable and a normal human reaction, it is not the best way to solve these problems."


Why am I not suprised....? BTW, I have to agree with M27 on this 105%!

-Tom

 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

M27

Wed Sep 19, 2001 10:58 am

M27: Joni stated a theory (which doesn´t seem to be completely without merit, from where I´m looking). You lashed out at him personally instead of really tackling his theory. That´s just weak form.
 
Guest

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:21 pm

Juul

If someone took control of a Sebena a320 and ramed it into the EU would you be singing a diffrent tune?

and about that free speach thing, you can thank us for that
 
Guest

A380

Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:45 pm

I don't ever want to board such a large aircraft, it is enough to have to board a 744! Plus all of the modifications necessary to EFFICIENTLY accomodate this double-decker beauty! This aircraft is neat to look at, but that's it as far as I'm concerned, can't wait to see one actually operating!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Joni

Wed Sep 19, 2001 5:21 pm


M27,

I don't care to get into a discussion with you about exactly why you've thought president Bush was doing a "tremendous job" before the attacks, suffice to say I find that assessment a bit surprising.

All of Bush's allies, and sheer common sense, say that last week's attacks should be played coolly, without getting into the kind of commotion Bush has got into and the terrorists wanted him to get into. He's called the situation a "war" (ok, there's the war on drugs and the war on cancer, too, so this extremely heavy term was ruined to begin with), a "crusade" (!), and a "battle between good and evil". In the Arab world, this all works to legitimize the attacks - in war buildings get bombed and a crusade/jihad is what the attackers probably had in mind, too. You need to realize that in many Arab countries with nominally pro-Western governments, the population harbours deep resentment for Western policies in the Middle-East. Saudi Arabia is a case in point.

There should be a thorough investigation, the perpetrators should be arrested, extradited if necessary, and imprisoned. Case closed.

Someone asked how we'd feel over here if an A320 was flown "into the EU". In fact, there are reports that a cell of al-Queda planned to use nerve gas in the European Parliament earlier this year. Imagining myself in that situation, I can imagine that anger would be more widespread here. However, we shouldn't give in to anger. We should handle these matters in such a way that we don't end up glamorizing and legitimizing the attacks with our rhetoric or responses. Terrorists are criminals that deserve to be locked up. They aren't a major religious or social issue that requires us to return to crusades and global warfare.
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 5:53 pm

Let's come back to the topic: the future of A380.
We all have to learn from history:
The Desert Storm time has been one of the worst for the airline industry.
Everybody said that it was the end of air travel.
In the following years, we have seen the highest profits of the airline industry.
And we have to remember that the air transportation is a cyclic business.
Based on those facts, it is very likely that the arrival of the A380 will be right on time.
And today's crisis will have a limited impact on the sales. (The only one I can see is LH posponing its order for 3 to 6 month). And as soon as it will enter in service, if it reaches all the objectives (cost, reliability, ..) then more airlines will buy it.
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: What Does This Mean For The A380?

Wed Sep 19, 2001 6:08 pm

I absolutely agree with Teva, the airline business will recover in the next months and years. Safety will be increased and the passengers' current fears will soon disappear.

The A380 is scheduled to enter service in 2006, by that time everything will be fine again by far. The Gulf War showed well how things can change again, and right now we don't even have a comparable oil crisis like in 1990/91.

It's important that people just calm down and realize that life will go on, and so will everythjing like the economy, travelling and so on.

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...