Oz777
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Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Wed Sep 19, 2001 11:14 pm

I am getting reports from the UK that the Virgin Group is in severe difficulty and may be close to collapse. Anyone with further information?

If so this will really put the cat amongst the pidgeons in Australia, as Virgin Blue is trying valiantly to pick up the slack left by the Ansett hole.

Oz777
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Wed Sep 19, 2001 11:46 pm

Oz777,

You are correct, the virgin group is in dire difficulty.
several assets have been sold off to re-finance the group.The group suffers from richard branson moving funds from virgin atlantic to less successful parts.

Singapore as let in with 49% to raise funds which have now gone.They will not let Richard Branson move funds away.

Branson had to morgage his airline stake to llyods tsb and so far he hasnt claimed it back.

1,200 jobs have gone, route cutbakcs are occuring and virgin will suffer because it depends on american travel it only has one european route.

The new open skies agreement between the uk and the usa next year will see virgin further hit as bmi and united will be together as will BA and AA.

the finances of virgin group are cloaked in secrecy, they are slow to register accounts with companies house(all uk companies must register accounts) and they will not flot the group because shareholders will not allow bransons questionable business tactics.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Oz777
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:17 am

Appreciate the info - some of it is quite old I gather.

The info I am picking up right now, is that Sir Dick has had the banks move on him, is in a flap looking for cash, and may, within the next 24hrs call in the receivers.

Any sniff of this in the London papers yet?

Rgds
Oz777
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:34 am

At least they have cut jobs and grounded planes!

They will survive. The board of VS said so. That's good enough for me. SO there.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Jaspike
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:39 am

Sir Richard Branson (The Owner) said on live Tv, that they aren't closing, they're just slowing down, because they, like other airlines are losing miney. He said they will hopefully be back to normal in the future.
 
VS744
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:42 am

plus the UK govt will bail them out.
 
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groobster
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Clos

Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:06 am

Why would the UK Government help out a privately owned company?

They've never done it elsewhere. What makes Virgin so special?
Next flights: MAN-DXB-BKK-DXB-MAN
 
wirraway
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:31 am

Oz777

You have surely got a scoop if your sources are
correct, I have just turned over all London's main
papers and there is no mention of this on their
latest and breaking news, interesting times.

Wirraway
 
kaitak
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:24 am

Careful here, I think. In times like these, competitors - some of whom had tried it before - MAY try to spread rumours about the financial strength of certain airlines; not pointing fingers anywhere in particular, but the other major British airline is also being hit hard and its Australian partner is also being troubled by part of the Virgin group; they would really regret Virgin going under.

Not saying anything, maybe there is truth to it and this is all the more reason to keep it a secret. Blood in the water and sharks . . .

However, I have some concerns about VS and welcome their move to ground a number of aircraft. I wonder was it wise of them to take on those ex AZ 744s, some of which are being flown on routes ex LGW, which have far less business traffic. However, when AZ cancelled its 744s, VS got Boeing out of a hole by taking them on, so I would imagine that if worst came to worst, Boeing would help them out in some way.
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 5:16 am

sorry to burst bubbles but Sir Richard Branson (The Owner) isnt the owner of virgin atlantic.

it is lloyds tsb and singapore airlines.

sorry to burt more bubbles but the British Government arent branosn fans, they stopped him running the lottery, branson means nothing to the british government,BA is what matters, not branson.

the british press are no longer branson friendly and would kick up a storm if he got government aid, especially since he is very quite on the finances.

dont say too much oz777, you and me seem to have upset singapore air since hes being childish and saying so there.

the board of ansett and anz said ansett would be ok and what happened?

oh dear, one airline gone(ansett), one coming (anz) and one maybe soon (virgin)-all with singapores sticky prints.

Branson ahsnt stumped up the cash for virgin atl, he will lose his airline stake to llyods permenatley f he does not pay very soon.

i dont see branson going bankrupt just let, however i see his baby being sold to singapore in full, he really needs the cahs.

the excuse when it was morgaged was that he was moving into the american mobile market, however no-one seems to know when the deal is to be completed.

he has sold virgin one finance to royal bank of scotland.
virgin holidays was sold to first choice.
virgin fashion is being shut down.
virgin vie is up for sale.

virgin megastores owe record companies a lot of money, they are not giving the companies their full revenues and are threaterning to stop selling cds if the companies dont renagotiate for virgin to have a bigger share of profits.

a stake in virgin rail was sold to stagecoach, only for the rest to be sold to them, branson also balmed railtrack for his inability to afford the train upgrades and he has been denyed other franchises.

he has an overdraft of 25 million as well.

grounding of aircraft and cutbacks will not please singapore airlines, they thought they had bought an excellent product, only now do they realise virgin atl had no money and that come open skies, virgin will be alone, its being blocked by lufthansa, united and bmi from joining the star alliance and by air canada which didnt like branson complaining about competiton in canada and threats to buy westjet..


Qantas is not being hit by virgin blue, the purchase of impluse plus the new austrian airlines help to shield virgin blue, virgin blue affected ansett far more.

and of course BA would love for Branson to go bankrupt, though i dont think Oz777 would be saying this because of british airways and qantas since previous posts show he isnt the number one fan of British Airways.

im expecting more developments.ps please inform me, no please tell me why the british government would bail out richard branson when he has critised them, they wont care if virgin goes bankrupt because they know singapore will buy it and if not they will sell it to british airways, transfer the staff and safeguard BA.

virgin will be scarificed first to save BA.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 5:25 am

another follow up.

Branson cannot gain any more credit and will soon default on his payments and virgin atl will be woned by lloyds tsb for good.

also the government rejected his lottery bid because they said he didnt have enough finances to run the lottery, pay out the winning money and donate all profits to good causes.

wont he also default on the virgin blue leases?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
b744
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 5:40 am

CNBC had a brief interview with Sir Richard Branson yesterday and also mentioned that the UK Govt is considering financial support for both VS and BA. There is a big difference between airlines and other private companies!
 
Guest

RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 8:35 am

Oz777,

No mention of any problems with DJ - they are in a good position at the moment, but if the parent can't cough up the money for leases, who knows?

Do any of you think that DJ will still be able to take up any of AN's planes / staff? Doesn't look likely at the moment. There hasn't been much noise from the DJ camp about it. Nothing from Mark Mentha either.

I'll check out Reuters and see what I can find.

mb
 
Jetstreamer
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 8:40 am

I have NEVER read so much rubbish in my entire life.

The demise of Virgin Atlantic is certainly not imminent. To suggest that the UK government would help BA financially and ignore Virgin is quite frankly ridiculous.

There are cutbacks being made with staff and routes. Show me an airline which is expanding at the moment!

By increasing capacity to the Far East and South Africa as well as decreasing capacity across the atlantic is a sensible move to safeguard the future.

Let's keep these discussions based on FACTS not speculation and scare mongering.

By the way, Go Canada, yet another thing you've got wrong is that Virgin Holidays was sold to First Choice. Virgin Sun was sold to First Choice. Virgin Holidays is 100% owned by Sir Richard and is the UK's largest tour operator to Florida.

 
RAAFController
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 9:01 am

Hi all,

Before people start worrying about Virgin Blue, lets all remember that Virgin Blue is a SEPARATE entity to Virgin Atlantic. The only real link is that they chare the same owner, and even that is tenuous as VS is 49% owned by SIA and 51 bu LLoyds Bank tsb.

I am beginning to question the management at SIA too. For a while with the dealings at Air NZ/AN i thought they were being very clever, but with huge losses in their sharholdings at Air NZ, and what appears to be a very real threat to the value of their holding in VS, i'm wondering if they have done their homework properly!

regards,

Dave

P.S. Does anyone ahve any more info?
 
wirraway
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:02 pm

If Branson was being called in by the banks,
the british press would have a field day with
the story.

Wirraway
 
srbmod
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:16 pm

Virgin Atlantic's financial state was used quite heavily by BA in their dirty tricks campaign against Virgin. If Virgin does indeed fall, bmi will be the one to benefit most from this.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:02 pm

My dear SIA=hater, SIA is not a sign of bad luck. Virgin will survive, they have cut costs so there is no reason why they won't. I'm sorry to "burst your bubble".

The British Press are Branson friendly ffs! What the hell are you talking about?

I suppose you need two British views to get a complete picture...
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:12 pm

VS sacrificed to save BA? Nice of you to share your in-depth fantasies with us.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:22 pm

Going back to Virgin Blue are they still planning on taking on 5 new jets a year as was previously planned? I think they operate around 10 737's at the moment and were due to take 5 more by the end of 2001 and another five by dec 2002- is this still going to happen?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 7:54 pm

What aircraft have Virgin grounded?
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 8:13 pm

Ni im sorry it isnt, singapore air, as usual your undying believe in the benefits of singapore coulded your judgement.

the British press, especially the boardsheets no longer have branson in high regard.This can be seen by serveral scathing attacks in the financial pages of the boardsheets along with the harsh words dealt out by the times rich list which says he has lost 1 billion pounds in 12 months.I dont expect you to read broadsheets singapore air.

i do apoligise i should have made clear that virgin sun was sold to first choice.

according to the virgin web-site virgin holidays is fully owned by virgin atl, richard branson former airline.

it does have implications for austrialia if richard branson isnt as wealthy as first thought.

i am not the only one singapore air who states that the management at sia can be questionable.

The British government has not AGREEED to give virgin and ba funds, it has stated it will set u a working party to study the effects.such parties will not come to a decision within a week, it is well known that putting things into commitee is a stallignt actic by the british civil service, constant backers of british airways.


if it came down to one or the other BA would survive, no question.

they may give virgin and BA aid but the british government is already backing the new BA/AA link up which will harm virgin.

i have said irgin is in difficulty, that is undenyable and recongised by the city of london which would deary love to read bransons accounts.

It is undenyable that he has sold soo many businesses, it is undenyable that virgin retail is in dispute with record companies, t has been reported in many british paperes and if was incorrect branson would have sued for libel.

we can all specutlate on the demise on virgin, this is a discussion forum and we are airing views, oz777 asked for further infor, he has had further info.

if some of you dont like it then thats your tough luck.

Remember oz777 asked for info on the virgin group.that is different from virgin atlantic because for the last time richard branson doesnt own his stake in virgin atlantic.

it is undenyable that open skies will affect branson the most because it will increase competiton and as stated time and time again virgin does not have an anti-turst immunity agreement like UA/bmi and the new AA/BA linkup.

Richard branson is happy to complain about competition when it suits him yet when real competition occurs, he doesnt like it.

richard branson has sold businesses, said in his book he had an 25 million overdraft and virgin retails has admitted to trying to renogiate what it pays record compnaies.

what is speculation about that?

i challegene anyone to prove virgin group is performing well, because I know you cannot prove this for his businesses are loss making and his accounts are kept private.

thats why its hard to accept that he isnt as rich as first thought.




It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
ryanair
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 10:42 pm

Go Canada!: Lloyds TSB doesnot own any of VS, they have a loaned Branson money secured on 51% of VS, that share is Bransons Trusts property, but should he default ownership is transfered to Lloyds TSB.

Virgin Group is troubled, but should it go bust then I assume the 51% moves to LloydsTSB, so ops continue. Wholely owned Virgin companies might be in more trouble.

Wasn't it rather unholy watching Eddington and Branson walk shoulder to shoulder to see the government demanding cash! Who'd have bet on that sight?
 
'Longreach'
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 10:44 pm


If any of this about Virgin Atlantic is true, SIA will have to start to think a little more before they go splashing their money around. I have read the value of ANZ has dropped over 70% in recent weeks and SIA just injected a further $150million at $0.68, which then practically fell overnight to $0.32. THis is a huge waste of money, and I would really like to see a statment from them now saying they are taking their investment seriously.

Also not to do with topic: Can someone tell me why all of this cash investment into ANZ is ocuring after Ansett collapsed?

Another stupid KIWI blunder no doubt? Or did they plan all along to screw the aussies over.
 
Oz777
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Thu Sep 20, 2001 11:20 pm

When I originally posted this thread, it was as a result of two separate emails I got from sources in the UK, PLUS a short new item on the late Channel 7 new here in Australia.

As has been pointed out, Branson's accounts are private (ie no public scrutiny), and the inter-relationship of each entity to the other is clouded. (Much like the Ansett accounts!!!).

If, as one of the reports suggested, it was the Group in trouble, then it may be a branding issue.

If it is Branson's American ventures (or one's reliant onUS traffic), then there some huge holes appearing. I cannot get a handle on his total exposure through the airlines versus his whole group's revenue, but:

With the Insurance hike noted recently, and Qantas has stated it cannot afford the increased premiums without Govt help, I wonder about Branson's personal ability to service the increased debt.

The info that came to me alluded to a cessation (or refusal to extend) of his ability to gear (ie borrow a greater percentage against his assets) as well as service lease costs. This was in response to the (sic) insurance hike.

Depending on how Branson structured his companies, one collapse could trigger a domino effect. I just wonder why, in Australia, he appears unable to secure leases on some of the Ansett aircraft to take up the routes the Govt is offering him.

And if indeed the lending institutions have tightened up, this may affect his ability to secure additional lease funding for further fleet growth. It would be a very risky banker prepared to fund additional moneys right at the moment for fleet growth. I tend to think there may be a thread of truth somewhere in this.

As I said, pure conjecture based on a couple of report from different sources. If there is any substance in it, it has huge implications for Australia.

Time will tell

Oz777
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 12:09 am


Someone really must have the scoop of the century, because I haven;t heard anything about this in the news LOL!

Frankly, the idea of the UK government bailing out Virgin Atl is ridiculous, it would neverrrr happen. They could give financial aid to airlines, but it would be split between all UK airlines depending on size. If the UK government would bail out anyone it would be BA, simply because, if it were to suddenly collapse, the transport network from the UK to intercontinental destinations would plunge into chaos, as would a lot of routes to europe, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be lost....
 
Jetstreamer
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:20 am

Nobody has the scoop of the century. It is pure speculation.

Some people obviously want to see the company fail so they are trying to talk it down. This is on the same level as the gutter journalism that I have seen over the last week.

 
Guest

RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:03 am

Oz777,

Well, things are looking grim accross all Aviation markets, particularly oz.

I can now see the following at YSSY:

QF Domestic 1. (QF)
QF Domestic 2. (AN's old one)
QF Domestic 3. (Intl.)
QF Domestic 4. (Express Terminal)

Why do I see this, for every hundred rumours there is always and ounce of truth. DJ are saying they will not lease AN planes because of the costs involved. Hmmm, I smell half truths here, I feel an edict has come from above over this and do not see DJ doing anything in the near term, and quite possibly shutting shop over the insurance issue - even though they are being given tremendous growth through the collapse of AN.

Wait another week or so when the Americans go into Afghanistan and see more trouble on the airline front. This brings forward more questions over any chance of AN being revived. As it turns out that all of AN's A320's are now leased, I would have thought this would have killed any chance of the airline coming back. Perhaps not. If DJ goes or can't take any more capacity then we are left with QF being the dominant carrier, this fly's (sorry) in the face of all our competition rules - neither QF or the feds want that.

Could we actually see a heavily subsidised AN return to the skies? What we have to remember is that we are all paying for the demise of AN, and will continue to do so for the next 12 months at the very least. With the upcoming war and the very real chance of reprisals and imminent terrorist campaigns tourism accross the globe will suffer. People will be staying home.

Interesting, if depressing times lay ahead.

mb

 
doug_or
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:19 pm

first swiss air, now singapore. will major carriers be more casuetious in the future before investing heavily overseas?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
wirraway
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 7:11 pm

Mx5

I am hearing the problem with VB leasing AN aircraft
is union related, which could well be true if you think
about it, for QF to fly 10 A320s, up to 2000 AN staff
would be needed, this is with QF doing all the reservations and ticketing, yet VB currently run their
airline with 9 737s with a staff of only 850-950.

Wirraway
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:03 pm

Yes but are DJ going to purchase further 737-800's like Branson envisaged about 6 months ago? He stated the airline would grow by about 5 new 737's each year for the next few years?? Is this still gonna happen or will Virgin Blue stick with their 9 a/c?
 
wirraway
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Fri Sep 21, 2001 10:25 pm

Positive Rate

Virgin Blue today announced they are in contact
with Boeing to see if they can bring all their 737-700s
and 800s FORWARD for early delivery, also scouring
around the world for an additional 9 aircraft to lease
in the meantime.

Wirraway
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Sat Sep 22, 2001 7:14 am

oh i agree,fancy rod walking alongside dicky b, lord king would have spit blood, still desperate times call for desperate measures, im sure rod wanted whats best for BA
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
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BNE
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Sat Sep 22, 2001 7:33 pm

If ansett can't be revived then Virgin should hopefully be able to lease the 737s that Ansett has now, that way Virgin could employ ex Ansett staff at Virgin rates of pay.
So if Virgin get their extra 737s where will they use them.
increased SYD-MEL; SYD-BNE; BNE-MEL;
bringing forward of their MEL-LST; BNE-DRW
new services BNE-CNS; BNE-MKY; MEL-HBA;
Don't think they could start services to Perth with the 737s that Ansett have. wasn't Perth 767 and A320 country.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
wirraway
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Sat Sep 22, 2001 9:43 pm

OK, the rumour I just got is that VB are leasing
10 737-800s from Midway airlines in the states,
can someone confirm if this airline has 737-800s.

Wirraway
 
go canada!
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Sun Sep 23, 2001 11:54 pm

Virgin Atlantic


End of airline, end of empire?

Can Richard Branson's tactic of expanding out of a crisis save the group?

Special report: transport in Britain

Joanna Walters
Sunday September 23, 2001
The Observer

Sir Richard Branson said this summer that, one day, he might hand down the Virgin empire to his son Sam. But what will the boy, now aged 15, inherit?
If Virgin Atlantic becomes a high-profile victim of the financial crisis now engulfing the airline industry it could bring the whole sprawling business of more than 200 companies created by the British tycoon crashing down with it.

That will leave Sam with whatever Branson has squirrelled away. And that may be very little if the entrepreneur decides to 'raid' his own personal fortune to fling a rubber ring to Virgin Atlantic, the financial bedrock of his business labyrinth.

Virgin Group director and spokesman Will Whitehorn said this weekend that the airline had 'as much chance of survival as British Airways'.

So what did he reckon were BA's chances of survival right now? 'Unanswerable,' he said.

Whitehorn said the airline was 'financially ringfenced' from other businesses in the group - a block on cross-subsidy was agreed when 49 per cent of Virgin Atlantic was sold to Singapore Airlines for £550 million.

Branson can raise money on the back of Virgin Atlantic to put into other concerns, but the group cannot rely on Virgin Atlantic for its existence or valuation, he said.

Whitehorn argued that the rail and mobile phone businesses were currently 'booming' and in the 'theoretical' event that Virgin Atlantic ceased to exist, there would be 'no impact' on the rest of the group.

Back in June, Branson, 51, was talking about the succession game, days after The Observer revealed that he had mortgaged his 51 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic as security against an overdraft from Lloyds TSB.

This news generated a debate about whether the £75m facility was a prop for losses in other parts of the trains - to - clothes - to - music empire or a cash pile for further international expansion.

Branson told The Observer that the facility was 'totally normal'. He had raised money in this way before and would do it again and he was not 'in hock' to the bank. The cash was to boost the international expansion of Virgin Mobile. A deal with US group Sprint to penetrate the vast but as yet untapped US market has yet to be done.

Since then he has accumulated around a further £150m by selling the Virgin One bank account business to Royal Bank of Scotland, and the French Virgin Megastores to industrial group Lagardère. Branson loves to expand his way out of any downturn.

But question marks were growing before the terror 12 days ago over whether Branson was getting perilously close to the sun.

He warned this summer that times ahead were tough for the airline as the US economy started to turn down in a dotcom/'dotbomb'-led recession, fuel prices rose, foot-and-mouth discouraged tourist traffic and the pound weakened against the dollar. Profits for 2000-2001 were flat at £45m and things did not look bright.

Profitability had already sunk by 60 per cent in the previous year, just before the SIA deal. This had valued the air line at around £1.2 billion, but industry observers put the value a few months ago at no more than £700m - a figure fiercely disputed by Branson.

The Sunday Times Rich List and US business bible Forbes magazine both halved their estimates of Branson's fortune this summer to between £1.15bn and £1.4bn.

Many other businesses in the empire are either too young or insufficiently successful to be profitable at the pre-tax level, and many, such as Virgin Trains and Virgin Direct financial services, are swallowing cash.

The airline, which Branson brought back from what he belatedly admitted was the very brink of collapse after the Gulf War - by selling his record label to EMI for £560m - had become the jewel in his empire.

It has given British Airways a scorching run for its money on North Atlantic routes. Despite being driven apoplectic by regulation Branson has built new routes to the US wherever he was allowed and, when he was blocked, he looked elsewhere and established routes to Tokyo, Hong Kong, Johannesburg and - more recently - the Caribbean, New Delhi, Shanghai, Lagos and Toronto. In retrospect these moves are even smarter than they appeared at the time.

But then came the revelation that Branson had secured his entire stake in Virgin Atlantic against a quite modest loan from Lloyds TSB. What will it take for the bank to pull the plug?

It would be difficult for SIA to increase its stake in the airline and for Virgin to preserve its flying rights as a European airline. Observers have talked about the possibility of one of the most profitable carriers in the world lending its partner survival funds.

But a well-connected source in Singapore told The Observer : 'Virgin has not asked for money and I do not think SIA would put any in - they are not prepared to be seen as a limitless bucket of cash.'

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Oz777
Topic Author
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:19 am

Interesting comment - much along the lines of what I was hearing a week ago.

I still think the real test will be as to how successful Branson is in getting the 10 B737's on lease. I would have thought the Ansett ones would have been easier - he is going to have to find pilots and cabin crew anyway.

Oz777
 
aussie_
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RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:46 am

The advantage of the Midway 737s is that they're 737NGs - indeed 737-700s (not 800s) so they'd fit into the DJ fleet perfectly.

Admittedly 737-300s in the fleet would not be too much of an issue but would lead to a future fleet of 4 different 737 types (-300/-400/-700/-800). Also, the AN planes are much older.

Furthermore, as Midway has just gone bust, and given the current climate in aviation in the US, I imagine they'd be very cheap... Why wouldn't Virgin Blue move to pick up 10 newish 737NGs at some ridiculous price. I'd imagine such planes will never be so cheap... (probably why Qantas is dithering so much over the Ansett A320s!)

On another matter if AirNZ go bust, expect to see Virgin and Qantas looking for large amounts of aircraft very quickly (British Airways have quite a few idle planes I believe). I'm sure Qantas would love to have the New Zealand market sown up.
 
Skystar
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 3:58 pm

RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Mon Sep 24, 2001 9:43 am

Ansett's 737-300s are capable of flying to PER, and they do so normally from ADL, and other WA state destinations (eg. Karratha).

Cheers,

Justin
 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Mon Sep 24, 2001 11:32 am

Oz777

I think the test to come is how financial Richard is
at the present moment, if he has access to reasonable
capital he can clean up, if finance is tight he leaves
himself open to a another low cost startup, most
likely from the Ansett carcass.

Wirraway
 
VS11
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: Implications For Australia - Virgin Group Close To

Wed Sep 26, 2001 7:02 am

Sir Richard will survive, have no fear.

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