ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 8:45 am

According to a flyertalk post, a UA pilot on MSNBC said, that besides the other security procedures which we've seen discussed extensively so far, he said:

"If a flight attendant calls me with reports of suspicious people standing up, buckle your seat belt passengers, because we can, and will fly that commercial aircraft upside down."

I've not seen this discussed before here. Does that sound feasible or even possible -- could a commercial airliner handle the inverted flight, or other aerobatic manuevers?

Is that something that commercial pilots include in their training at all?
 
ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 5:21 pm

BTW, I know the crew of a Fedex jet that was attacked by a disgruntled employee wielding a hammer did some crazy manuevers in the air to stop him.

Is this something that a pilot of a passenger airliner would seriously think of doing as a tactic?
 
POSITIVE RATE
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:31 am

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 6:37 pm

Well it would certainly give the pax the upper hand. If the pilot put the a/c into a sudden 60 degree+bank the hijackers would lose balance giving the pax a chance to pounce. Or how about putting the a/c into a steep dive 30-40 degrees?? that might work too?
 
goingboeing
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RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 9:40 pm

STart the wild manuevers and don the barf bags, I'd say turn the aircraft into a "vomit comet" and throw the hijacker all over the cabin. Use the aircraft as a weapon. thow in a few strong manuevers (60 degree bank, etc) and injure the would be hijacker. Settle down and let the pax beat the crap out of him.
 
Spitfire
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RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:01 pm

For your info, the Airbus a/c (320-330-340) are limited in bank angle to 67° max ( by the computers protections) and 30° nose up, progressively reduced to 25° at low speed, + 15° nose down. So NO aerobatic figure possible ( no barrel roll or so...). Maybe some negative g's that's all.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
skihigh2002
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 11:17 am

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:26 pm

Ryu2, are you referring to the DC-10 hijacking about ten years ago? I believe what the Captain did (wasn't his name David Sanders??) is put the aircraft in some steep dives and then some very steep nose up positions. I read a book about it and I don't recall him ever having put the airplane in a barrel roll........ also, Spitfire, if I'm not mistaken you can turn off the system that keeps you from doing that. On a video I have of an A320 simulator the Captain simulates a barrel roll by turning one of the systems off.

Chris/MEM
 
markk
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:02 am

After doing some basic dutch rolls in a 150 I would think that would be enough to throw a would be terrorist off balance enough for the pax to take action.
 
BlatantEcho
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 3:41 am

Any idea if this could become SOP for pilots in the hopefully remote chance a hijacker can again gain access to a commercial transport?

So far it seems like the best suggestion, coupled with passenger intervention, to foiling hijackers.

BlatantEcho
They're not handing trophies out today
 
seagull
Posts: 334
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RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 4:34 am

David was the Capt, but it was the F/O who did roll the aircraft inverted.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 9:47 am

Funny thing about that quote from the pilot is that he was the Captain on my mom's NRT-SFO flight last weekend...!

She felt REAL safe with him at the controls!  Smile

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
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RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 10:02 am

Skihigh2002,
Yes Chris, we can turn off some PRIM and SEC computers in order to cancel the limitations, but in the rush and the stress of this kind of situation, this is not so easy to do, and also to remember what system is to be shut down (there is 5 computers: Prim 1,2,3 and Sec 1,2 ). Anyway, maybe can we learn that in the simu the same way as an engine fire at V1. Quite classical exercise...
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: Evasive Flying Manuevers In Commerical A/c?

Mon Sep 24, 2001 11:06 am

The captain is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft...he can do whatever he wants in the name of safety.

The pilots on the FedEx flight had the plane upside down, nose down, and at one point, past Vne, the speed where the aircraft "should" have broken apart.