Oz777
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Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:30 pm

According to a report in the Sydney Morning Herald, the commercial manager for Virgin Blue says they are looking to lease a number of 757's.

Interesting move. They must know where there are a few charter configured 757's available on ACMI leases at short notice.

That would be a pleasant change in the Australian sky.

Oz777
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:35 pm

Are you sure?
Has the Virgin group ever had 757's?
Correct me if I'm wrong... it was a real big shock.

Maybe Sydney Morning Herald got it wrong??? (Though I doubt very much).
It's just after reading a very long book written by Qantas about their history and current situation, I had to laugh at the caption saying "Qantas Boeing 747-400 Longreach" and the caption was pointing to the Boeing 747-200.

Regards
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:36 pm

now that is a weird move, and also a very big change for their " only 737" policy. Not sure how well equipped their termianls are for such planes either. Doesnt that move mean their operating advantage is eroded ( single plane fleet ).
 
Oz777
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:40 pm

Have to agree with both of you. Seems Virgin want to throw some capacity on the trunk routes and stop AN getting up and running again.

The thing that suprised me though was that the report was quite specific in mentioning both aircraft types. Which leads me to think that it has to be ACMI leases on a short to medium term basis.

Oz777
 
Braniff Place
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:46 pm

It would be interesting if there is ever going to be australian 757s to see them in the new dj livery
 
Oz777
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:46 pm

Copied across from the HERALD
_______________________________________________

Airlines ready to ditch stranded passengers

By Darren Goodsir, Transport Writer

Virgin Blue is almost certain to withdraw its discount fares for abandoned Ansett passengers after the Federal Government last night helped the failed airline's administrators to get planes back in the air.

Qantas, which ends its free flight offer for travellers today, is also likely to curtail its deals.

Both carriers had agreed to provide free flights, subject to available seats, to passengers stranded in the middle of their journeys - and give discount fares until the end of October to travellers who had booked tickets.

But Virgin Blue's head of commercial, Mr David Huttner, said the Government's support to establish an Ansett Mark II put those plans in jeopardy.

"We have serious concerns about this," he said.

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With capacity to increase with Ansett Mark II, Qantas has stepped up its negotiations with an aircraft leasing firm that wants to take back planes from Ansett.

Barely a day after abandoning a deal to lease 10 jets directly from Ansett, Qantas is sweating on the actual owners of the planes.

Under the plans, Qantas could have 17 aircraft in the sky within weeks.

Virgin Blue will also soon have fresh aircraft, pushing for leasing deals to expand its fleet with up to 10 Boeing 737 and 757 planes.

Qantas last night confirmed it was holding talks with Ansett Worldwide Aviation Services (AWAS) - a leasing company distinct from the airline and owned by investment bank Morgan Stanley Dean Witter - in the hope of striking a deal that would put 40,000 extra seats on clogged routes.

It is also talking to Boeing and Airbus directly over "the purchase and long-term lease of aircraft for its domestic operations".

The chief executive of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the airline would "make a firm decision on these aircraft after a detailed assessment of international economic conditions and the overall difficulties in the aviation industry".

Qantas wants up to eight A-320s, six Boeing 767s and three Boeing 737s.

The beauty of the AWAS proposal is that it already has an air operator's certificate and can immediately provide pilots, and cabin crew to Qantas, on
contract.

The deal's fate hinges on hearings in the Federal Court, where Ansett's administrator, Mr Mark Mentha, has already succeeded twice in fending off lessors by having his period of cost-immunity extended. However, leasing firms are certain to protest against any further extensions, because some are paying head-lessors while incurring huge losses to Ansett.

Apart from looking to beef up its fleet with leased aircraft, Qantas is bringing home from international routes bigger planes to provide an extra 18,000 seats a day.

Since Ansett's grounding on September 14, Qantas says it has put on 275 extra domestic flights, and 109 flights using bigger aircraft - carrying for free 45,000 Ansett passengers, with another 40,000 stranded travellers getting discount fares.

Mr Huttner said Virgin Blue wanted to quickly increase the size of its fleet through fresh lease deals.

"But we want to grow at our own pace, at a pace we can sustain," he said.
------------------------------------------------------

There it is , in black and white
OZ777



 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:52 pm

good work there Oz777, atleast we know have th proof.
 
srbmod
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 3:58 pm

It's actually the only narrowbody that a Boeing fleeted airline can upgrade to if they need more seats. Beoing has talked of either a further stretched 737 (which would require additional exits), and had once proposed a shorter 757. I really think Boeing need an aircraft to fill the capacity gap between the 737-900 and the 757-200, because really the difference in the max a 737-900 and the baseline 757-200 setup is really quite huge. Airbus, to an extent, has that problem taken care of with the A320 family.
 
Qantas737
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 4:07 pm

Although Virgin Blue has their "one aircraft fleet" policy, it seems that leasing 757s could help out with extra capacity in the short term. Dont forget these will be leased and wont remain in the fleet for long term (as far as i am concerned). 757s operating for an Australian carrier would be a nice change, and it sholdnt be too hard to get hold of some new aircraft with all the cuts that airlines are making around the world.
 
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BNE
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 9:47 pm

The 757s were also mentioned in an article in the Financial Review. Why on earth would they want them, would a 757 be able to do Sydney-Perth without restrictions, if they wanted to do that market.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 9:56 pm

The 757 would go on truk routes eg MEL-SYD, SYD-BNE and BNE-MEL, if the 757 can't reach perth, I guess the 737-700 would be used for that.
 
Skystar
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Sep 27, 2001 10:47 pm

Why wouldn't a 752 be able to do SYD-PER when they do transcontinental runs in the US.

If anything, DJ's 73Gs may need a paper upgrade before they can run SYD-PER, as I believe they're quite derated and have the low MTOW.

Well, if things go well, PER will have it's own "premium economy" airline, Ansett in a week or so.

Cheers,

Justin
 
757man
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 2:49 am

Are some of you saying that the 752 has a problem with range? These aircraft can fly over 4000nm fully loaded. They fly North Atlantic services from Europe to the States all the time. AMS-EWR is flown by a 757-200 of Continental Airlines.

I can assure you that a baseline 757 has quite a bit more range then any 737 in airline service. Please don't fire back the BBJ at me, this is a big Biz jet based upon the 737-700 and is not an airliner.

My only gripe with Virgin Blue operating 757's: Won't turnaround times be longer? The 757 can hold quite a few more PAX than a 737-700.
 
757man
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 2:56 am

Range of 737-700 with standard payload is 1585nm, although HGW version can fly 3300nm.

Range of 757-200 with RB211-535E4 engines is 2569nm to 3719nm with standard payload.

I think the 757 is the clear winner in terms of range.
 
SMI
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 6:58 am

virgin did look at 757s last week. now they consider 738 and 739 their best option.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:09 am

Although this would hinder AN Mark IIs ventures to be a phoenix, it is a wise move from VB. After all, that market needs a plug and who better than Virgin Blue.

At the profits that they have made the last FY, it is only to be expected. Maybe it's the time for them to fulfill their promise of going to Darwin (Northern Territory, Australia).
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Qantas737
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 8:32 am

Virgin Blue already flys to Darwin......
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:30 am

They plan to fly to Darwin I think in March 2002 according to their website. I'm suprised they haven't pushed this forward but i guess there is a lack of aircraft at the moment. Wonder why AN and DJ and QF has so much trouble leasing planes.
 
Skystar
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 12:53 pm

Well,

Ansett Administrator may have A321s organised if things go well, according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

757man, if what you say is correct, DJ's 73Gs won't be able to make it to PER from SYD, certainly against the winds. This confirms what I suspected from my cockpit rides on DJ.

Cheers,

Justin
 
aussie_
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:23 pm

I don't think there would be any problem for the 73Gs to fly to PER, particularly the -700s. For example FJ at one stage was about to start ADL-NAN flights (then came the coup!). This would be longer than SYD-PER I guess and even though DJ do have more pax per plane, I would be surprised if the planes couldn't make it.

Anyway, at least before the AN crisis, DJ were going to route all PER flights through ADL, using ADL as a hub for pax from BNE/SYD/MEL. However now they may have ambitions to do the route direct. Pity for Adelaide  Sad

As for 757s, I wonder why? I imagine slots at SYD must be on the cards for DJ (ansett can't keep them for ever - I think they are to be reviewed Dec 1 - is that correct?) I think 738s or 739s will create better fleet synergy and allow greater frequencies.
 
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BNE
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:42 pm

Flying a 757 to Perth range wise isn't the problem, the main problem I was thinking of was the ETOPS range that was available. When you head west there aren't any choices to land a plane if you get into any difficulty. Which is different to America where their is an airport every few hundred miles.

Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:28 pm

The 757 would have no problem under ETOPS rules flying between SYD and PER. The distance is 1770 nm. Here in the US, several airlines use the 757 between SFO and Hawaii. The distance is 2,074nm and there are no airports in between. You either return to SFO or continue on to Hawaii.

Richard Silagi

 
tullamarine
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:38 pm

DJ would undoubtedly want the extra slots but they need to arrange terminal access as well. The current terminal cannot handle more than 5 aircraft at once. They are unlikely to be attracted to paying the serious dollars a lease of AN gates would cost them.
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TSV
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:10 pm

What routes did the 757s fly that were in Australia during the pilots strike?

I flew on an Air2000 757 over to Perth but can't remember whether it left from Sydney or Melbourne (old age / senility). I do however remember that I flew on a 757 back from Perth to Melbourne as the next flight was from Melbourne to Brisbane on a JAT 737 with the Captain trying to pronounce every city and town that we were flying over and most of the passengers were pissing themselves laughing!

The 757s were very very nice by the way.
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
JAT
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:06 am

Was it a JAT captain, or was just the plane JAT's?
 
TSV
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:05 pm

It was a JAT 737, JAT Captain and Co, with an Australian Cabin Crew (1989 Pilot's Dispute in Australia).
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
hoons90
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:24 pm

757 can fly transatlantically. EWR-LHR
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JAT
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Oct 04, 2001 5:11 am

Oh, it was back in 89? I thought it was more receantly. '89, the glory days of JAT, back when it was a respected airline.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Oct 04, 2001 5:48 am

Stupid question, but someone mentioned that Virgin Blue made profits last year. Is that true? If so, how? Usually, start-ups break even two or three years into operation, not in their first year...

Well, if they grow exponentially now, and manage to make money, they might yet become the saviours of other Virgin enterprises.... how ironic for start-up! I won't believe it until I see it...

Regards

Ikarus
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Thu Oct 04, 2001 7:14 am

They made like $500,000AUD or something after the first three months, just operating costs. It was quite a suprise as they thought that they would be in the black for at least 3 years.
 
TSV
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Oct 05, 2001 10:28 pm

The Boeing 737 chapter in "Airliners in Australian Service" Volume 2 by Eric Allen says that the JAT 737s in Australia were 737-3H9s YU-AND (30.09.89 - 05.01.90) and YU-ANJ (02.10.89 - ??.01.90) if this is of any interest.

Can't find any info on the 757s in this series as obviously the 757 doesn't have a chapter. Might just have to look back through old issues of Australian Aviation.
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
TAA_Airbus
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Fri Oct 05, 2001 11:00 pm

Well how about this then, in my reading of the west australian newspaper yesterday, it is beleived that Virgin Blue want to bring in some of the currently unused 747s and A340s of parent company Virgin Atlantic and apparently the government is right behind the idea.

They beleive they can fill these aircraft just on Perth sectors.

Easily possible I must add, Perth people get the worst deal of all australians. And it must be said, West Australians were the biggest supporter of Compass.
So all we want is a half decent airfare, not to mention a seat.
(I went to book a seat PER-MELB for early december and all seats were already taken, goes to show why AN sold 200 seats for PER-EAST COAST within 5 minutes of going onsale )

But yeah, bring in 747s or A340s, they will get filled up.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:44 am

Virgin Blue may have made $500,000, but overall they lost $11 million because of all the costs. Until they clear all these costs, they will not be making profits...
 
The Coachman
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RE: Virgin Blue To Get 757's

Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:44 pm

Flyinghighboy,

I think you mean in the ?red? for 3 years...

The Coachman
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