sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:45 pm

After the end of the social negotiations at Sabena, the day before yesterday, the pilots announced yesterday they did not agree with the plan and rejected it completely. They announced social actions as from 6am Belgian Time this morning, and indeed, up untill now, already 9 flights had to be canceled due to a strike.

C. Müller announced yesterday that any social action at this moment, would kill Sabena. His spokesman also said that the actions could be a great danger to the company. He also mentioned that the managament was still waiting for the pilots to come to talk to them, though they had not heard anything from them yet.

The conflict between the pilots and the management is a very severe one, and a solution is not in sight. Both parties accuse each other from the fact that they do not want to talk to each other and that they do not use the given opportunities to negotiate.

If the pilots are right by claiming that this Buiness Plan will kill Sabena, it may be wiser for them to give it a chance and see what happens. If they are right, they will not be blamed. With their actions, however, they will be accused of being the cause of the end of Sabena, not the business plan, as they think.

According to me, they should give the Business Plan a chance, as it is at this moment the only chance of survival for Sabena.

sndp

 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:53 pm

VRT-news just reported that 9 out of 20 early-morning flights were cancelled.

Regards, SZ-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:08 pm

another company killed by the unions for shortterm gain...
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:17 pm

Unfortunately for the sane pilots like Sab20 and Sndp that care about their company and want it to keep flying, the lunatics still keep trying to run the asylum. Well, they got their wish. If they want it closed down, I'm certain that's what's going to happen.

And the result will be that those people identified as BeCA militants have been blacklisted around the European airlines - so they will find it impossible to get another flying job on the same sort of equipment and pay that they are at SN. After all, who wants to employ someone whose goal in life seems to be to try and mount a coup d'etat within the company by dictating to management; and to force the company into bankruptcy?

Absolute insanity - and as a result of their selfishness, 9000 people will be out of wok - plus goodness knows how many suppliers' employees. I hope BeCA's really poud of itself.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:22 pm

problem is, union membership can not be a reason to be passed over for a job.
Any of them that do get passed over for a job for any reason will just go to court claiming it was because they are a unionmember demanding to be taken on anyway.
Most judges will give in to them.
I wish I were flying
 
avion2002
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:48 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:23 pm

This morning UseNet (Aviation Ins.) reported that the Belgian authorities assess the possibility to limit the licence coverage of Belgian pilots. This would mean that licences be (temporarily ?) suspended. This is related to the alternative insurance mechanism for third party risks, now taken over by the Belgian state.
Any confirmation on this ?
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:29 pm

CEILIDH: where do you live? Blacklists of BeCA militants!You are a demagogue , crawl back under your rock!

Besides that, do you really think that the BeCA would tka some of these risks if they wheren't damn sure about what they are saying?????
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:41 pm

Avion 2002,

would it be possible to put the whole link here on the net, it would make things a lot easier to verify.

Thanks
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 6:12 pm

Striking now is just plain stupid, and never has there been a worse time then this.
Again we punish the people who pay our salary, again we will push people to other airlines!!
Is this the way we want to make Sabena profitable????
Well then mullers plan is better!
 
D-aqui
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:06 pm

As I have noted in another forum I am a frequent traveller with Sabena, mostly on the route from Brussels to Strasbourg.
I shall be brief because I still hope that today's flight will not be affected.
The action of (some of?) Sabena's pilots for whom I still held a certain kind of understanding at this stage is simply unreasonable.
Personally as a passenger who wants to see his family on Friday I feel taken hostage by such action, although I am still in the comfortable position to swap to the car. But what I want to do is to fly, to experience the advantages of airtravel, i.e. saving time and getting there relaxed.
Travelling on Sabena has become unpredictable these days and maybe those pilots who are fuelling the disputes should think about that they are not only causing an immediate effect with losses caused by the action as such, they are furthermore diverting passengers to other airlines where there are alternatives.
I am off to Zaventem, for the next adventure...
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:47 pm

Rik Daems has put it correctly in the TV show "De zevende dag" last Sunday when he said that at SN they're arguing about how the future will look like whereas they should take measures so that there is a future.

Looking at the arguments the pilots give they seem to forget (or they don't want to face the fact) that SN's survival depends on the goodwill two shareholders (SR and the Belgian State). Only they (the shareholders) decide on the fate of SN, and the shareholders only accept Muller's plan or something similar.

BTW You can blame SR, you can blame the Belgian State and you can blame Muller for the current problems but fact is that SN HAS serious liquidity problems. Face this fact and start working on how to get out of it. If you've done that, you can start blaming whoever you think you need to blame. But at this moment, SN needs both the Belgian State's and SR's goodwill to approve the capital increase. If SN doesn't get the EUR 430mio I think some creditors will call their loans (which means bankruptcy).

Regards
Laurens
 
Guest

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 8:07 pm

Airbuspilot - if you or anyone else don't think that militants will be blacklisted, just ask any of the Australian pilots involved in the 1989 dispute what happened to their careers.

I am reliably informed that the names of the more militant BeCA people have already been circulated to airlines around Europe - try applying to say Ryanair and see how far you get! Big grin Big grin Big grin

As for your statement "do you really think that the BeCA would tka some of these risks if they wheren't damn sure about what they are saying?????" Laurens is spot on. Who cares whether they are right or not? That's like the Captain of the Titanic arguing whether the ship was hit by a rock or an iceberg - it's still sinking!

And as prophesised, BeCA will be the one that will be remembered as being the organisation that drove SN into collapse - not SR or the Belgian government.

Care to tell us on here what your non-pilot SN colleagues have been doing/saying to striking pilots? Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 8:25 pm

concerning Ryanair, I am not blacklisted there, ican give you proof of that.

What we have been called, well, those are words that could come out of your mouth...low level!

I could not care less what people are calling me, everybody has the right to an opinion and I have mine...

I only find it very sorry for the pax and I would like to apologise to them. That is he only group of people who have a right to make those statements. All the others are saving their own butts, the only ones with a personnal opinion and the balls to come up for that are the pilots and some other categories within the personnel!!!

Last minute news, although details still missing, a belgian consultancy bureau, under the leading of a specefic politic party, has come up with an alternative, all belgian, plan. This is being looked at right now so more info to come....
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:31 pm

Vote NO to the referundum and keep Sabena alive for the LONG TERM !!!!
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
avion2002
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:48 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:46 pm

To Flying Belgian :
A "no"-vote means a vote against the Mueller plan, but also a no against a plan that has been approved by the Belgian State and Swissair.

None of these parties has an alternative option.

Under the current EU-competion rules, there is no such thing as state aid. The State can not put any single penny into Sabena, unless a private investor puts the equivalent capital in the company. With the strike that is going on now, which private investor would be so stupid to invest in a company, whose customers are terrorized every other week by pilots who have apparently missed the millenium change ?

A "no" note leads to bankrupcy.

If you hold a secret file of a take-over ... well, I'm interested to listen ...
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:53 pm

AVION2002:

I will vote no because this plan brings a solution for 3 more months (at best) and no solutions for the long term. This plan is tailor made to Muller's ambitions and to the Belgian Government's scare (being responsible for the loss of 12000 jobs).

Anyway, I am not worry as it is sure that the majority of the employees will vote no.

Regards,

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:08 pm

I will vote.......................................................................................................NO!!

 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:16 pm



I hope to see a new Belgian Airline called : AIR BELGIQUE !!!!!!!!
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:33 pm

Hey guys, I've figured this out.

All the BeCA guys who are proposing to block the restructuring got together a few months ago and short-sold as many Sabena shares as they could (there are a few small shareholders, it seems, apart from the State and SR), and hope to drive the company to bankruptcy and rake in the profits while covering the position! Kinda like what Bin Ladin and his associates did with the Insurance and Airline industries. Just another form of blackmail/terrorism.

I honestly can't think of any other reason.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
avion2002
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:48 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:35 pm

et pour les Flamands la même chose ?
Merci, Flying Belgium, please change your name into "belge volant", ...
 
BelugaBoy
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 10:36 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:36 pm

Swiss banks ... Beca ... got it ?

another couple of days and Trends his article will be old news before it gets published !!

Drinkt nog een pintje AirbusPilot , vliegen zult ge de komende jaren toch niet meer doen he jong  Smile/happy/getting dizzy))))))
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:39 pm

AVION 2002 :

Flemish are so proud they can keep VLM, Vlaamse Luchtvaart Maatschapij. So they could stay away in Antwerp.

For your info SABENA means Sociéte Anonyme Belge d'Exploitation de la Navigation Aérienne.

I would be proud to see Air Belgique flying...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:50 pm

With almost every airline in the world facing an uncertain future at this moment, the strike by the Sabena pilots does not seem prudent at this time; the pilots and other employees at SN have been through hell, and their frustration and anger is understandable, but the strike may accelertate the end of Sabena. Look at the facts, airliners are flying empty, over 100,000 jobs in the airline industry have been lost in a matter of days, airlines are rushing to cut their schedules and park their aircraft, the horror of 11 Sept combined with an already difficult world economy and overcapcity are killing the airlines, and part owner Swissair is considering bankruptcy itself at the moment; how can a strike at SN at this moment accomplish any good?

 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:54 pm

USA is a free country, as the constitution guaranties the right to have guns.
Then, what do you think about the following idea??
The airlines have to give a gun to each passenger over 5years old.
Then, the terrorist will be ... terrorized to fly with any US airline  Nuts
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:33 pm

Teva,

That would also put a big dent into so-called "air rage"

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Charles

P.S. This is in the wrong thread.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
DE727UPS
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 10:55 am

Ceilidh

Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:43 am

"I am reliably informed that the names of the more militant BeCA people have already been circulated to airlines around Europe - try applying to say Ryanair and see how far you get!"

With the smiliey faces at the end of this statement...one might be draw the conclusion that you agree with blacklisting these pilots......

Hummm.....sounds like the same thing you've condemed ALPA for in the past.

Could this be a double standard???

 
groholsky
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 1:39 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 2:19 am

Hi Belugaboy...i wonder what kind of person you are !!!

-Criticizing Airbuspilot for some reasons and then saying
flamish are smart guys.
Just for info, airbuspilot is flamish and he is smart. You just told it !!! So stop your rubbish...I think Airbuspilot knows the matter better than you.
You, belugaboy, must be the exception among the flamish people. so sad !
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 2:28 am

Cfalk, unfortunately Sabena is not a listed company (then I would have short sold this company and buy put options with all the money I have). SR is but I was too late in buying some put options (never thought they would go under CHF50).

Anyway, as I said before. The majority will accept Muller's plan. BeCA is bluffing as they know what will happen if they don't accept Muller's plan (and I don't mean bad PR). Moreover as the pilots seem to have a lot of loans outstanding and thus need a job.

BTW Flying Belgium, you probably don't want to fly for DAT either as this is also a Flemish airline (Delta Air Transport N.V.).

Regards
Laurens
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 3:00 am

At this point its plain ridiculous to strike and ground planes. How do you justify not flying and losing revenue at times like this? I just cancelled a booking I had on Sabena to MAA, and am not going to consider SN as an option anymore. I had parents who were stranded at BRU on Sep 7, and if there is more of this to come then its simple : more passengers are going elsewhere and are not coming back. As far as all the pilot apologies - I don't buy it - what a crock. If you really care, why don't you first get us to our destinations and then do your talking. I have heard both sides of the story and neither is perfect, but at this point there isn't a choice in my view, and as a customer I really don't care - I just want to get from point A to point B without getting stuck somewhere in the middle. There are corpoations in the US that are already beginning to stop further transatlantic bookings on Sabena where possible - and these are the revenue making business tickets - Good Job - is there anything else you want to accomplish? A lot of irrepairable damage has already been done on the customer side. I can only hope, as LJ mentioned, that this is just a bluff by BeCA.

Good luck to all the dedicated folks at SN.

I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:14 am

The BeCA is taking 9000 hostages and heading for the twin towers. Airbuspilot I know you do not agree with all that is said by the BeCA, but it's nice to still defend them. But how far can you go? Lots of us think the plan is sh...t but what does the BeCA propose? They want a new management and a new plan. Do you really think your job will be save with a new plan? If somebody pushes you into the water do you first swim or argue? Just for info there are no plans to restart. Time to wake up in the real world!
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:24 am

BelugaBoy:

Then leave Brussels Airport right now. You seem to pretend that only Flemish have brains ???
- The only way Vlaanderen expanded is thanks to black money, and pig breeding.

Belgium would not lose you believe me. And certainly not your ugly bloody language that no one want to learn.
Flemish people have (in part) destroyed SABENA with the way you think. We call people like you FLAMINGAND and I compare such people to fascists of ex-Yougoslavia.

Regards,

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:54 am

Flying Belgian,

Very sad how you react, stop being childish and accusing the flemish what is going wrong, you blame belugaboy but you are even worse!
 
Teej13
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 5:52 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:34 am

Maybe I'm a little too far removed from this issue, but it seems to me that the airline industry is in a worldwide slump. Furthermore, Sabena, although they've been kinda screwed over by the Belgian govt and their ownership rules, should still want to remain afloat. How embarassing is it to have a country without a Flag Carrier? I don't know the root of these pilots' grief against the airline, but striking at a time like this is foolish! Now is when you accept any deal you can, and work out the details when the industry is less turbulent.

Heck, if Sabena wants to train and hire me, I'll accept any package they've got!
 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:18 am

OK you guys,

Where is this going to end?

I have much respect for the SN pilots, and I can surely understand why they are angry and so, but I can tell you one thing:

As soon as Sabena goes bankrupt because of these strikes (friday and saturday), I know who I and a lot of other people are going to blame SN pilots for this (at least partially).

Now, why don't the SN pilots even want to give Müller's BP at try? If they're so convinced the plan is nothing but a big pile of you know what, then why don't they just give it a try? If it turns out it's worthless, I'm sure all SN employees will have much respect for SN pilots, and they will get heard with any alternative.

But, instead of this, they are pushing this beautiful company SN of this cliff (it was maybe about to fall off anyway?). And, if SN goes bankrupt, I think many SN employees and employees of many other companies that had contracts with SN will blame the pilots...

I'm sorry to say this, but in my opinion as an outsider, the pilots are ruining their reputations...not?

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:37 am

Everyone to their rooms, right now! And don't come out until you smart up.

What a crock of nonsense you're writing here. One would seriously think you have more dire matters on your mind right now than starting a flame war between Flemings and Walloons. Grow up.

I can't even believe I'm sitting here, writing a reply to this. It being as ridiculous as it is, however, I thought I'd just point out the obvious for the lot of you.
Credibility drops far below zero.

TriStar.

BTW Flying Belgian, Sabena *used* to stand for Société Anonyme Belge de l'Exploitation de la Navigation Aérienne. Just like the rest of us, I'm sure you know it is now simply "Sabena" as a word, and no longer an acronym.
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:04 am

Ooooh Boy Oooh boy Ooooh Boy......
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 3:54 pm

I am Flight Attendant within Sabena Group, and I do not blame the pilots !! It is the only guys who try to defend our interests. The unions are totally sold to Müller and the Belgian State.

The best way to keep a good airline is to see Sabena bankrupt and as a result to start back from a new page.

FB/BRU


Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:48 pm

Yesterday a pilot said on TV (in "Terzake") that the pilots are trained to be managers in the sky and pilots are not trained to manage an airline. He went on saying that it's just a small group of pilots who went on strike. Given the fact that the pilots managed to shut down "only" 1/3 he was correct.

Regards
Laurens

BTW very childish for the pilots not to answer any questions from a reporter regarding why they were on strike when they did have the authorisation to do so.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:57 pm

Haven't you noticed something strange about this TerZake-pilot, Lj?

He had Captain stripes, but was sitting on the right side of the plane, so in the F/O's seat.
Normally a captain is not allowed to fly as F/O, except when they are Line Training Captains, so management pilots.

In other words; the guy you are talking about is part of the management and all he said has to be seen in that context.

Just wanted you to let this know...

You see how easily it is to be mislead in all this if you are not 100% familiar with this world of aviation... Thats why I strongly advice all non-specialist to think not twice but 100 times before giving their opinion here....
 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:21 pm

Smart thinking, Sabenapilot...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:25 pm

Sabenapilot, it did cross my mind that he might be from SN management as (I did knew he was a Captain) a Captain of his age should have been flying larger planes than a RJ100 (DAT usually employees much younger pilots if I'm correct).

However, he still has a point. What qualification does BeCA think to have to give a negative judgement about a plan of which airline analysts and experts believe is A chance for SN's survival (some analysts believe SN is doomed to go bankrupt anyway)? If you say to me that the pilots have used financial experts to determine that SN is not in serious financial problems (this is at stake right now) than I'll say go ahead with your strike. Unfortunately all financial experts agree that SN needs the capital injection from both SR and SN to survive allthough I agree that most analysts have some reservations about Muller's plan (they think SN is doomed anyway and should have been bankrupt years ago).

Regards
Laurens
 
groholsky
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 1:39 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:52 pm

hmmmmmmmhmmmmm Lj
-"a Captain of his age should have been flying larger planes than a RJ100 (DAT usually employees much younger pilots if I'm correct)."
Do you think it will be possible if there's no Common seniority list anymore ?
BTW, if he still flies the RJ100, then it's because he wants it so...i think there were enough biddings not so long ago ! (or maybe is he not that high on the list and scared of something ?)





 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:16 pm

Just for fun here,
I'll give away his identity now:
he's not only a "regular" Line Training Captain, he's even a chief pilot, responsible for the Training Department at DAT. It's correct that he is much older then the average DAT captain, and now you know why...

BTW-
If you want to join DAT flying the new 50-seaters at crazy salaries he's the one to contact!
Oops, I forgot; the 50-seaters (part of the fantastic Muller plan) are already indefinitely put on ice....
So far as to a well studied plan, hey?
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:22 pm

If 2/3 of the flights has been flown and if I hear some of you saying pilots of the management are flying, does this mean 2/3 of SN pilots are in the management.
I've heard pilots say " I prefer SN goes bankrupt than to give in". I think this situation has gone much farther than the BP, it's about power now. I see members of the BeCA who do not agree with what is happening and trying to bring back dialog, they know this is wrong but it seems BeCA has TARGET FASCINATION. Wrong action at the wrong time.
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:38 pm

com3205,

You are absolutely right, the only thing here is power!
What do they strike for??

The money that is going to Swissair?!?, well the strikers flush sabena money down the toilet, what's wurse????
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:45 pm

Com3205,
I have to agree with you on the target fascination issue.
After all, we should remember that at persent only the social plane for those leaving is on table, and not the BP for those staying. (even if that one will never be put to us in a referendum...)
The BeCA tells me the best strategy to block the BP is to block the Social plan, but I think we'll get other and better chances to do that later...
After all, even if the BP would be executed, there's nothing lost yet, management can ask us for all sorts of increases in productivity they want, but each of them has to pass through CEP, (Commission d'Etude de Prestations) where they have to be discussed indivitudally! If for instance they want to introduce a hard combination like MAD + NCE (mind you this means BRU-MAD-BRU-NCE-BRU), then we can still block most of it there by endless discussions, studies, and alternative proposals. Even the BCAA has shot down some SN management proposals there! We have seen exactly the same with the productivity increase in the Blue Sky plan last February.
In short, don't panic.
-----------
As to the number of flights actually cancels:
I'd say it's about 65%.
Don't forget that Sabena deliberately counts all flights on a SN flightnumber as SN flights, so also those who are flown by Schreiner (DHC-8, ATR) and Virgin Express.
They even include all codeshare flights like those with American, Finnair, VLM, Aer Lingus, etc. etc.
On the other hand, flights normally flown by Sabena pilots, but on other callsigns are excluded (I am thinking here of Sobelair).
Just another aspect in this "war of facts"...
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:51 pm

SN never actually said that SN is going to order a 50-seater (at least not in the press releases and statements to the financial community). SN only said that SN intends to buy or lease 50-seaters when SN thinks they need them (and at least not before next April).

Sabenapilot, I'm not getting into the CSL discussion. I personally don't care if it's there or not. Moreover, who am I to say that a CSL is out of the question if some other airlines (and also companies in other industries)have such a list? However, if Muller, SN's shareholders and the pilots think this is an important issue than it probably is. Only sad to see an airline collapse over such an issue whereas other issues are more important (in my view).

Regards
Laurens
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:16 pm

airbuspilot,

You just give good reason why not to strike, you tell that we can still negotiate items later, so why do you strike???!!!???
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:37 pm

Hello SNpilot
No panic at all, I just do not feel good with this kind of action that does give the pilots a VERY bad name. I've always thought dialog the only way to solve problems like these. The problem is that the conflict is not about the BP anymore but it became a personel conflict between some BeCA top and Muller. Do we all have to pay for that? NO! Put them around the table, lock the room and they can only come out when they have an agreement. Joke. We want a new management and a new BP. Another joke.
In approach,but on the wrong RWY, running out of fuel do you land or go around?
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Sabena Pilots On Strike

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:28 pm

Com3205,

More and more people are awere that this is not the right action, the media is all over the pilots and you canbe sure if sabena goes bankrupt it will be blamed on the pilots.
The beca should have hired a media specialist instead of loyers to help them plan actions, because here the only losers will be the pilots, what the outcome maybe!
As you noticed some people are starting to have doubts, like airbuspilot, because the longer this goes on the more divided all personnel will be of sabena