ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:36 pm

By early October, it is my understanding that TWA operations at JFK will cease to exist, with flights
being operated mostly by American Airlines, from
its own terminals 8-9. Terminal 5 will be closed,
with its future now more uncertain than ever. It
also seems unfair, even inappropriate that the
final TWA JFK-CDG flight did not or will not receive
a ceremonial end. This flight has historical
importance....it was the first TWA transatlantic
flight and the first to go jet, the first to receive
the 707, then the 747. And tragically, it was a
route that ended in disaster, in 1996, when
TWA 800 exploded off Long Island and crashed.

TWA's JFK operation was inefficient, unprofitable,
poorly managed, and in the end, unworkable, but
for those of us who flew them regularly knew that
TWA was a fixture at JFK....much more so than
Delta or American. It was the other Pan Am the
other anchor tenant.

Don't you think the airline deserves some kind
of farewell?

 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:55 pm

hi
being a CDG employee I'm sad to see the cheap and unceremonial end of this historical route...plus as far as I'm concerned, I first flew to the states on TW precisely on the CDG-JFK route...so it's twice historical for me!
I totally agree with you, the end should've been sweeter...but,hey, looks like money (and AA ) rules the transatlantic skies...
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:06 pm

Continental EWR, you are absolutely correct, the conclusion of TWA's international services out of JFK deserve a special event. I, too, remember, the many TWA 747s, L1011s and 707s lined up at their distinctive terminal at JFK bound for destinations throughout Europe (and the US), and when TWA was number one accross the Atlantic.

Their Royal Ambassabor service brings back memories when flying really had style. Do you remeber their ad campaign: "A taste of Euope flying in the USA....TWA" when airlines competed on who offered the best menus and food and in the air; now food service is a thing of the past on most domestic flights.

Up, Up and Away, TWA.....they deserve to be remembered.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:21 pm

It's very sad indeed, TWA at JFK was a nice way to fly, OK T5 didn't have enough checkin desks but TWA service picked up and they became a nice way to New York. My last flight was JFK-CDG on a 762 in Feb, now their only trans atlantic route will be LGW from STL, a sad end, I remember when TWA across the atlantic was huge and their Tristars and 747's were a common sight over here, they should get a nice send off!!

What about all the jobs? I wonder how much "all US Unionised workers jobs are safe" is worth now?
 
aaer 777
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2000 10:42 pm

Wake Up And Smell The Coffee...

Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:24 pm

It would indeed have been nice under normal circumstances.... which is definitely not the case...
At the moment survival is the only thing that occupates people's minds... Start preparing a bash for the reopening of the route (you'd have at least 5 years preparation time...) and in the mean time you can count the dozens of other routes which are closing as we speak, all of unmatched significance for those who operated them... It is a mean mean Darwinian world out there...
Which part of "NO" do you not understand?
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 2:48 am

I'm willing to say that JFK-CDG was much better suited for them than LHR. With the strict slot restrictions at LHR. CDG was the next best thing. I saw so many TWA tails there. You ask any Parisian there on what US airline is remembered the most. TWA always came up. While PAN AM had FRA. TWA is the US airline that was king of the hill CDG. I can't believe that their Euro hub is going away. I remember the connections out of CDG like FCO, Milan, Athens, AMS among others. Unfortionalty TWA's Pacific route was a failure because it didn't last more than 6-8 years but their Euro system especially with CDG in the picture was reliable.But too bad BOM couldn't be mixed in with TW's routes and have something like JFK-BOM via CDG. Sad to see it go from riches to rags. In my opinon Ichan did try to help TWA but with previous management screw ups sicne the Howard Huges era. There was only so much money that can be but it before economics dictated it's end. The one thing i'll always hate of Icahn was his selling of LHR authority. Sell the Mideast or any Euro route for all I care but TWA was always turning a profit at LHR and CDG out of JFK.
"FUIMUS"
 
DETA737
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 3:47 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:07 am

That's sad that there is nothing to mark the end of this era at CDG. Paris was TWA's first transatlantic destination, starting February 6, 1946. When TWA was flown by celebrities in the 1950s and 1960s this was a very popular route, I recall seeing a flim reel from the early 50s with Grace Kelly boarding a Lockheed Constellation for a trip to Paris. I know at Lisbon earlier this year they commemorated TWA's last flight, since they had been flying there since 1946 as well. I think that Athens, Cairo, Lisbon, Madrid, Paris, Rome and Tel Aviv were the most significant transatlantic routes because they all started in 1946 and lasted until relatively recently. Frankfurt, London, Milan and Zurich were also pretty important because they started in 1950 (Zurich in 1949), and lasted for much of TWA's history. As for the Scandinavian routes, Amsterdam, Brussels, Istanbul, Munich and several other TWA transatlantic routes that started in the 1980s, they were relatively shortlived.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:54 am

TWA's destinations started in the 40s and 50s were the true money makers. After the late 60s that's when everything became screwy. They shouldn't have tried and competed in the Pacific. The instead shouldve better poured the money into strengthen their transatlatic routes For TWA MIddle East (until Sept 11) and Western and Central Europe is where the money was. There were way too many big competitors in the Pacific plus TW had no real experience. It was a risk not worth taking. I didn't care if they were round the world or not but that they spend their money and expand wisley and the Service in the Pacific except for Hawaii wasn't it. Too bad that they didn't start replacing the gass guzzling 727, 747 and the L-1011 in the mid 1980s otherwise they would've saved alot more cash in the long run on fuel efficient 757 and 767 aircraft.
"FUIMUS"
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:56 am

Time to ceremoniously string Carl Icahn by the balls and tie him to the undercarriage of a TW 767 taking off on its last flight !!!

Fitting tribute to a great airline and and its evil nemesis...
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Transtar
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 1999 5:51 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:16 am

Yes, I will always have fond memories of TWA and flying through JFK. When I lived in Albuquerque in the 1980's, TWA flw L1011s and 767s on its morning ABQ-STL-JFK route. It was on TWA that I went to Europe with my parents and I loved the sight of its 747s lined up at the JFK terminal. I do hope they keep that terminal as it an architectural landmark (the main building, not the gate extensions).

In regards to their overexpansion, I vividly remember their brief excursion into Russia in 1992-1993. I flew them First Class (my Dad's frequent flyer miles) JFK - Brussels - Moscow Sheremetyevo in the Summer of 1992. The JFK-Brussels flight was on a L-1011 and then we changed to a 727-200 Advanced the rest of the way. Talk about low passenger loads...there were four of us on board on the Brussels-Moscow route, three in first class and one in coach (who was moved to First Class). The crew treated us great, with lobster and champagne. We landed at Moscow late, so we missed our gate at Terminal Two and had to be deplaned across the way at Terminal 1. Neat to see the TWA red against a bunch of old Aeroflot TU-154s, IL-62Ms, and a VIP IL-96-300.

Oh well.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:14 am

The main terminal will be kept and it'll most likely be turned into an aviation museum. The building itself is protected because it is listed on the National registry list. But it is said that flights wings 1 and 2 will be torn down and the terminal will be merged with T7 by a mini building with gates. So it looks to me that the TWA terminal will no longer be able to serve planes from there.
"FUIMUS"
 
Early Air
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Wake Up And Smell The Coffee...

Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:00 am

That is horrible..

What is going to happen to their great terminal, I have a lot of memmoires from that terminal...

Rgds,
Early Air
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 10:11 am

The old TWA terminal at JFK, designed by Eero Saarinen (the same architect who conceived the main terminal at Dulles), has been designated a landmark and will be preserved. (New York City planners learned a hard lesson from the outcry that followed the demolition of the original Penn Station.) So, too, will the futuristic tunnel connecting this building with newer satellite terminals, but the latter will be razed for something "bigger and better." The old terminal will take on a new role, but I'm not sure what. I love to look at the TWA and Pan Am terminals at JFK and imagine the dawn of jet travel and remember two pioneering airlines.

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sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Mon Oct 01, 2001 2:43 pm

I dunno about you guys, but as a passenger going through the TW complex at JFK in the mid-90s, I have no nostalgia for that ambience.

For the carrier, yes-- but not for the terminal. Absolutely not. Sorry, Eero and Pei...
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Thu Oct 04, 2001 2:29 am

Fan o jets. The PA Terminal is going bye bye next year. Good ridance. Please don't compare the old Penn Station with this pisspoor cold design that is an insult. Penn Station was a 1,000 times better than that cramped dingy funny looking PA Terminal. I personally like T1, and the international Terminal at JFK better.
"FUIMUS"
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Unceremonial End For TWA At JFK

Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:03 am

Delta has delayed the reconstruction of its terminals at JFK, including the old Pan Am terminal, until the market is in better shape. Consequently, don't look for T3 to be demolished next year.

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