El Al 001
Topic Author
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Mon Oct 01, 2001 6:39 pm

Hello everyone!

Some more bad news, this time from TLV;

Today was reported that British Airways will downgrade it's LHR-TLV service with 767s to replace 777s, the airline would also reduce it's 17 weekly flights to 14, leaving 2 daily flights between LHR & TLV.

Alitalia, which operates 24 flights a week to TLV (A321) would reduce it's service to 14 flights a week by the end of October.

SAS had already confirmed last week that it would cease it's operation between CPH and TLV, that would leave Israel and Scandinavia with no schedules/direct flights at all, as El Al had already withdrawn its TLV-Scandinavia services last summer by ending TLV-CPH (LY used to fly also to ARN and HEL)

Rumors at TLV also suggest that LH will announce a decrease in it's presence at TLV by reducing the airline's 17 weekly flights to TLV (17/A343 at the moment)

KLM confirmed last week that it would downgrade the service to TLV from MD11 to 767, and would reduce from 8 weekly flights to only 6.

That leaves Swissair, with yet to announce anything regarding its TLV operation (14 weekly A330 between TLV and ZRH + codeshare with El Al on 10 weekly flights between TLV and ZRH/GVA), but would it stay like this??? I hardly think so due to SR's BIG problems....

And just to remind you guys, DL does not serve TLV from Sep' 11th, CO reduced already last year from 14 weekly flights to only 7 (777), AF did the same (went from 2 daily, A320 on TLV-CDG, to 1), Iberia decreased capacity by using A320 instead of it's daily 757/AB4 to TLV.

This is just too much.... the only good thing in here is that ALL airlines (except SAS) said that all changes are only temprarily, and subject to change after Winter.

Any Comments???!
Michael, Tel Aviv.

BTW; Does anyone know anything new regarding AC's YYZ-TLV operation (7/763)???
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:39 pm

Michael,
It is indeed sad that we loose all those carriers. About YYZ-TLV, I flew them this summer and the pilot informed me that they are going to change from a Boeing 767-300 to an Airbus A340. I'm really not sure why, though.
 
El Al 001
Topic Author
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:54 pm

Look, you know my opinion about this, we already discussed it before, thing is that since the pilot told you that, the world had change a 'bit'.
AC is not doing 'so' well, not to mention the hard time in Israel = the YYZ-TLV route can not justify an upgrade to a A343, the only thing that can happen is that AC will reduce the frequencies from 7 to say... 5.... but I really dont know....

Michael
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:50 pm

The 2 daily flights that AZ keep on TLV are both to MXP or one to MXP and the other to FCO??
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 12:08 am

EFO ATA GAR?
 
Guest

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 12:20 am

Bad for air travellers at least. I thought you couldnt watch airplanes at TLV? So its really no change.
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:04 am

Really, you can't take pics because it's a military base but every plane flies over Tel Aviv. I recomend going to the Izraeli Towers and taking pictures. On Saturday, I was at Bloomfield Soccer Stadium at Tel Aviv and I saw planes that were from TLV and a smaller field in Tel Aviv called Sde Dov.
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:24 am

Hello,

Has El Al announced any fleet or network cuts please?


Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 5:48 am

AfA340, from what I hear, LY has actually been doing well during this crisis. Apparently, people in the US/Europe are now taking El Al to Hong Kong, India, China, etc., bypassing Cathay, Air India, British Airways, etc., and it is working the other way around too. They just feel safer on El Al, and why wouldn't they? El Al did announce a small layoff recently, however. 240 people I think. When they get thier fourth 777 this summer they might start non-stop Miami-Tel Aviv services (or Atlanta-Miami-Tel Aviv or Miami-Atlanta-Tel Aviv with a 744) to replace the one-stop service right now. They dropped some destinations, like Copehagen, Manchester, and Nairboi, but all of them dropped well before the attacks.
a.
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 5:51 am

You would think that because there are no tourists, that the planes are empty but actually, Israelis are leaving Israel so the planes are 80% full both ways
 
avi
Posts: 885
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Tue Oct 02, 2001 10:43 pm

El-Al is doing well this time because it’s a Jew new year holiday period. It all be over next week. Than the company should park forever its B747-200 fleet (the decision was made about 5 months ago and has nothing to do with what has happened in the USA but because what has happened in Israel in the past year). Tourist hardly come to Israel and the war bells that we can hear, doesn’t help a bit.

KLM normally uses B767. Now it uses MD11 because Amsterdam is a favorite city by Israelis and the planes are full. They did the same thing last April (another holiday season in Israel). As I said, next week it will be all over and KLM will go back to use smaller plane. I guess it’s the same thing for the rest of the companies.

About Europeans who fly with El-Al to the far east, I didn’t hear about it. Don’t forget that El-Al has a very long route to the far east because it can’t fly over Arab countries. A flight to India takes about 8 hours instead of 4 hours.
Long live the B747
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Wed Oct 03, 2001 2:20 am

Avi, LY has canceled those plans:

srael airline cancels plan to ground Boeing 747s

As the U.S. airline industry continues to be hammered with layoffs and canceled reservations, one airline is
reporting a sharp increase in business. El Al, the national airline of Israel, has been swamped with bookings
since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the East Coast, according to a report in the Oct. 1 edition of USA
Today.

The airline has canceled a plan to ground some of its Boeing 747-200 aircraft from service and cut 500
employees, a plan that was in place before Sept. 11.

El Al's security, which requires a three-hour check-in and intense questioning, is legendary in the aviation
business.

The airline also has up to five armed undercover agents traveling on each flight and many of the flight
attendants are former members of the armed services and trained in hand-to-hand combat.
a.
 
El Al 001
Topic Author
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Wed Oct 03, 2001 2:37 am

What the hell are you all talking about????

El Al had already posted a 20% decrease in operations last April.
The airline is expected to lose 105 milion $$ on 2001, after lossing 109 milion $$ last year (2000).
The airline was rated number 13# in the list of the world's most lossing airlines (of 2000).... thats FAR from doing o.k!!!!

LY772 - chaval lecha al hazman, tafsik lishol efo ani gar.... AND, yes, TLV is a 'militery' base, so???? sure you can take pictures! The only active militery a/c at TLV are some old 707 and L-130, thats all!

Air Blue - I have no idea, i guess that AZ would fly daily from MXP and daily from FCO.

Boeing757fan - Sure you can spot airplanes at TLV, infact my last birthday party was at the best spotting place, in the field, my friends really surprised me..... BTW, its a really romantic place too.... Smile

Hey Alain, whats up?? LY had already ceased operation to the following airports: ARN, HEL, CPH, NBO, MAN, LIS, BWI and another few in Eastern Europe. Also most of the destinations were reduced in terms of frequencies and capacity.

Mah4546 - LY said last Sunday that it would have to lay off another 240 employees in addition to the 300 employees that are already out, the crisis in Israel is hurting the airline badly, load factor used to be at LY around 70% in the past, this year we are 10%-25% far from this number.... most of the destination in EU decreased in 50% over the last few months. Forget about a TLV-MIA nonstop, not anytime soon!!! (even when the 4th 777 comes)
The airline is doing well in the services to Asia, thats true, but its NOT thanks to some transit pax from EU or the US, thats a mistake! flight time from TLV to BKK or HKG is the same as from FRA for instance, there are NO pax from EU/USA that do that!!!

Oh and LY might wait a bit with the phasing out of its 742, true, some convertibles a/c would be changed from pax to cargo operation.

Michael.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Wed Oct 03, 2001 2:44 am

El Al 001, what you are saying is the complete oppisite of what the media is saying. LY has seen a shapr increase in travel since the attacks.
a.
 
El Al 001
Topic Author
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: TLV; BA Going For 767s, AZ Going 14 Weekly, SK Out

Wed Oct 03, 2001 7:22 am

You use the media, I use the numbers.
There wouldnt be anyone happier than me if things were like you said, but thing is that the traffic to Israel is very low at the moment than used to be, its true that many pax (both Israelis and foreigns) preffer to go with LY due to security now, but that is not enough in order to get things back the way they were.

LY might increase its slice (in terms of pax numbers) among the airlines who fly to Israel, it might also increase it's load factor on certain routes, but it would still carry less pax than it used to.

Also keep in mind that El Al does not operate for 15 days (!!!) during September-October because of the Shabbaths and the Holidays, meaning, less flights are being operated.

Hope for the best, Michael.

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