Emile
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:42 pm

To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:19 pm

i hope that the european commission will do what they
said before.
NO MORE STATE AID.
its not fair,they had enough state aid i think for more then 70 years.
i am a european taxpayer.
 
Guest

RE: This Is The Solution.

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:17 pm

I'm a European taxpayer too. It's a pitty that Sabena never was able to hold up its own trouser. I pledge for one strong Benelux airline, it definitely will be the solution. Close Amsterdam Schiphol Airport, Brussels National Airport and Luxembourg Airport and build just one very huge airport in the very center of Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg. The capitals have to be linked with world's most mega airport by high speed train and/or commuter aircraft. That will work!!!!!!

Am I a realist, fantast or visionair? I think the last will be once true. It is just a matter of doing.
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:26 pm

Your idea is not bad Air Orange, but if you look for the long haul flights. For short haul means dead.
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:31 pm

I'm a European tax payer to, and so are all SN employees. Think about it.

While you're at it, why not take a look at the numbers and see whether the flow from the government to Sabena ("funding") or the flow from Sabena to the government (taxes) over the last few years is positive. Then again, talking about that doesn't sound quite as dramatic as the power language you're using now. Does it?

TriStar.
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:37 pm

Air Orange, as Airblue said, for short haul flts, it will not work.
An Example?
AF replaced its flts CDG-BRU by the Thalys (High speed train) (they just put AF on the train ticket.
The reason? In a little bit more than an hour, you are in downtown Brussels (from CDG 2 )
NAna...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Guest

RE: Teva And Air Blue

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:41 pm

Okay, I understand your points of view. So just reduce the capitals' airports to commuter/short haul airports and build just one mega airport for middle and long haul flights. Will that do?
 
Guest

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:47 pm

There are two perfectly good airports - CDG and AMS that can handle the long haul traffic, along with London. Let BRU just be a regional airport, serving the EU bureaucracy!

TriStar - as SN hasn't made profits in 41 years, it hasn't had to pay any taxes on profits - so of course the Belgian taxpayer has been the loser!
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:50 pm

One more completly stupid statement from this stupid and totaly ignorant guy:

Taxes do not come only from profits!!!!!!!!!
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:54 pm

Ceilidh I respect your answer but I do not agree. London is not an option for continentals. I travelled often with the Eurotunnel and it is far of perfect. France has a totally different culture. AMS has reached its space limits; they try to create a mega hub on a mini poststamp.

No, the Benulux countries should take the oppertunity to make one fist by creating a competitive mega airport. Do not forget how many people in this area live! This almost world's most overcrowded area has a huge potential.
 
Guest

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:57 pm

Spitfire - OK then, smartass, where is Sabena directly paying taxes from if not profits? And I don't want to hear anything about employee taxes etc!
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:04 pm

16 billions bef last year !!!!!!!!!!!
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:11 pm

My question was, where from exactly? Governments can't just mug companies for money, you know!
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh And Spitfire

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:15 pm

Calm down boys, it's not worth. Take a Sisi!
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:20 pm

Fuel taxes , landing fees, pax fees, airport fees, airways fees, taxes on works for third parties, and so on, and so on....

In Belgium there is 21% VAT on almost everything, didn't you know that?

Are you in aviation business ????????
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Ceilidh

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:20 pm

Ceilidh,
Europe is a continent (and GB... not an island anymore...)
But each country has different tax systems.
I don't know for Belgium, but at least they pay VAT.
In France, you could add "taxe professionnelle", "taxe fonciere" (for their properties) etc....
And here, as per your request, I donot mention the employee taxes.
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Guest

RE: Vat? More Power To The Eu?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:33 pm

Uhm, I was shocked by reading Spitfire latest reply. Why do we have no fuel taxes for airlines in Holland but we have them in Belgium? Strange, competition in the EU seem to be false. No wonder it is hard for Sabena to compete... We are the EU but all separate governments are still making their own "local" laws and rules. How selfishness! EU makes itself unbelievable. I pledge for more power to Brussels, and less power for EU countries!
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:49 pm

Air Orange,

fortunately EU is not yet a "one country", so each single state is able to decide their own taxes.
So it's possible that in one country VAT is 21%, in some others 19% and so on.
 
Guest

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:50 pm

There are no fuel taxes in Belgium - or the rest of the EU. As for VAT, all businesses claim it back and in fact EU airlines are exempt or zero rated! Passenger taxes are paid by the passengers as part of their tickets. Eurocontrol charges are not taxes. Rates (taxe fonciere) are paid to the local councils and not to central government.

So, Spitfire you actually haven't been able to come up with any corporate taxes paid by SN! Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3309
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead

Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:23 am

And even if they do pay taxes, it will probably be smaller than the subsidies they get. Therefore the Belgian government is stil making a loss out of SABENA.

Unfortunately I haven't got any numbers to back this up.
Attamottamotta!

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