777kicksass
Topic Author
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 9:52 pm

British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:20 pm

I know they fly some of the same routes as BA but what is the point? Are they based somewhere else?

Could someone just give me someinfo please!

Thanks
 
Guest

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:24 pm

It's a special purpose company set up by BA to fly to Taiwan. Qantas has the same thing; as does Japan Airlines.

If you fly to the PRC you're not also allowed to fly to Taiwan.
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:27 pm

Ceilidh is correct !

There are a lot of others like Swissair Asia or KLM Asia.
Lufthansa uses a 744 in Condor livery for the Taiwan flights.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:29 pm

Wonderful Question.
Actually, somebody has asked me this question before.
You see, there's this China & Taiwan problem, about Taiwan's nationality.As you know, China always claims that Taiwan is a part of China, while Taiwan has never mentioned the word China, as Taiwan is not a part of China (That's what Taiwanese Say.)
So forget history, talk back about the question.It's because due to some very very spectacular reasons, airlines flying to Taiwan and China MUST be SEPERATE airlines.British Asia Airways is an example.The planes were used to fly to Taiwan, while British Airways would fly to Hong Kong and China.Also, there's Japan Asia Airways, KLM Asia, Qantas Asia, Swissair asia.All these planes have a different logo, but actually it's just the same company.
I'm not sure if this complies to nower days China and Taiwan's aviation rules, but that's the truth.Seperate Companies, Seperate Airlines (Looks like, actually it's the same airline).

Hope this explains
Best Regards
 
hkg_clk
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:56 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:31 pm

But do these airlines really only fly planes painted in the 'Asia' liveries to Taiwan? Or do they set up such a company just so that they can say they've got this special company?
See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
 
Guest

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:33 pm

It's a seperate legal entity. So British Asia Airways Ltd flies LHR-TPE; not British Airways plc.
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:37 pm

It's the same company, i've just confirmed that.
BUt if you take a look at the reg. numbers, they aren't the same.you could figure that out.

Best Regards
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:56 pm

Okay 9v-spk was somewhat right about the situation about Taiwan and the mainland China. The only thing is, it was the mainland Chinese government who ordered foreign airlines to set up separate entities for flights to Taiwan.

So airlines like set up subsidiaries like Australia Asia Airlines (Qantas, code IM), Swissair Asia (Swissair, code SR), KLM Asia (KLM, code KL), Japan Asia Airways (JAL, code EG), and others use their existing subsidiary: Condor (Lufthansa), ANK Air Nippon (ANA All Nippon Airways) to operate into Taiwan.

Interesting thing is, the mainland Chinese government originally requested the Japanese govt not to allow Taiwanese aircrafts to land in the same airport, but until now the only city that you can't see both Taiwanese and mainland Chinese aircraft is Tokyo. China Airlines (of Taiwan) and EVA Airways both operate out of Haneda Airport in Tokyo, which is used for domestic traffic only. Surprisingly this gave CI and BR an advantage to airlines flying into Narita (Tokyo International) because Haneda (Domestic) was much closer to Tokyo downtown...

Anyways, back to the topic. Qantas begun using its own aircraft on the Taipei route in 1996 and dumped the lame Australia Asia Airlines. Also the majority of airlines flying into Taiwan simply ignored the mainland Chinese govt and operated its own aircraft into Taiwan -- like UA, NW, SQ, MH, CX, TG and others...

Hope this explains the question.

Jimmy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 12:01 am

Hi Air Taiwan !

Thanks for this detailed explanation !!!

Patrick

NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
777kicksass
Topic Author
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 9:52 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 12:25 am

Thanks!!

Is this 'rule' ever going to be abolished because it doesn't seem to achieve much!
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 12:51 am

Well this "requirement" by the mainland Chinese govt is really just to satisfy their ego to sorta say "look, we have the power to isolate Taiwan from others"... yes it doesn't achieve much...

But rumours has it that the mainland aviation authorities are working with their Taiwanese counterparts to work out a way to establish direct air links between Taiwan and the mainland. But the catch? Taiwan must recognise that it's a domestic route....

eek politics~~~!!

Jimmy
 
Guest

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 2:25 am

European airlines that flies to Taiwan will always flies the a/c with "Asia" title on it. BA/KLM has 2-3 744 in "Asia" titles, in case one of them needs maintainance, so they can use another 744 also with "asia" title to fly to Taiwan.

By the way, Qantas used to fly Taipei under "Australia Asia Airlines", however, this airline no longer exists and Qantas flies to Taipei under "Qantas" title.
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 11:40 am

Actually Jim1126, BAasia does a lot of times fly into Taiwan using BA aircrafts. And a lot of times the BA Asia planes are flown into other destinations like LA and Miami. Its just doesn't make a difference... at all...

In the case of Qantas... the Oz govt just didn't care about the rediculous, childish requests from the mainland Chinese govt...

Jimmy
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:19 pm

Actually, only 1 airline got the permission to fly with the same name they fly to Taiwan.only ONE.

Singapore Airlines.

Best Regards
 
Guest

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:28 pm

Air Taiwan, the reason why BA use its own aircraft lots of times to Taipei is because there's no British flags anymore because they switched to those "Exotic" colour (Forgot what are they called).

However, BA has decided that to apply the "Union Jack" (aka British Flag) colour to all of their aircraft once again, you won't be able to BA using its own aircraft to TPE anymore. 3 of BA Asia's 744 are in Chelsea Rose colour and other one.
 
Paradox
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:17 am

RE: 9v-spk

Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:23 pm

How come only Singapore Airlines got permission to fly with the same name to Taiwan?

Paradox.

 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:52 pm

Actually Paradox, there's nothing to do with aviation.It's because of the Singaporean government and Chinese and Taiwan government.I might not be as sure as Singaporeans, but i know that Singapoe governments have had good relationship between China and Taiwan governments.I guess it was a long long time when Singapore's Senior Prime Minister Lee Kwong Yiu (Right spelling?) was able to satisfy both governments, especially Chinese government and could mantain both countires relationship.That's why China didn't really mind, and allowed SQ to fly its own airline to Taiwan.

I guess it was quite lucky for Singapore Airlines.Afterall, who wants an airline to have 2 different logos and different names!

Best Regards
 
airways1
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 3:05 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 8:16 pm

I flew to Taipei on a British Asia Airways 747-400. The flight is via Hong Kong, so these planes are also often seen in Hong Kong.

All the things inside the aircraft (eg. safety card, service items) have the normal British Airways branding, it is only the name painted on the outside of the aircraft which is different.

However, separate British Asia Airways timetables are printed:


 
LJ
Posts: 4147
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 8:36 pm

KLM has 5 planes flying in KLM Asia c/s. Needles to say you won't see these aircraft in Shanghai and Beijing. The biggest difference between an KLM Asia and a usual KLM plane is the fact ther's no crown on the KLM Asia c/s.

Regards
Laurens

BTW isn't there also a "rule" that at any given time it's not allowed that both a CI and a CA aircraft may be present at the airport?
 
sin777er
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:39 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 8:40 pm

Lee Kuan Yew, 9V-SPK. You make me mad saying our SM's name wrong.
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 8:45 pm

But i didn't mean to!
Please accept my apolgy, i wasn't really sure as i wrote in the article.I'd try to remember that.

Best Regards
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

Lj, 9v-spk, Paradox And Others

Sun Oct 14, 2001 9:41 pm

Lj:

I've explained that in my first reply to this topic... please refer to it...

9v-spk and Paradox,

There are so many other airlines who get to fly to Taiwan in there own name, namely Thai Airways, Malaysia Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, Air New Zealand, Ansett Australia(used to), Royal Brunei, Garuda and many others... so Singapore Airlines was not the only one... Do you think the US govt would allow the nonsense of the mainland chinese govt and order UA and NW and others from N.America to set up a subsidiary just for them? I don't think so!

Jimy
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

Jiml1126

Sun Oct 14, 2001 9:56 pm

Jim you're only theoretically right... it was the whole purpose that aircrafts carrying European flags wouldn't be flying into Taiwan that "Asia" airlines were established.

But realistically, their own aircrafts WILL fly to Taiwan whenever the "asia" planes were not available... I mean, if all the "asia" planes all happen to be occupied for whatever reasons... do they just stop flying into Taiwan?? Of course not...

just look at these pictures...

BA in Taipei

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Arthur Yu



AF cargo in Taipei

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Arthur Yu



they are both in their original colours...

regards

Jimmy
 
Paradox
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:17 am

RE: Air Taiwan

Sun Oct 14, 2001 10:51 pm

I was going to post a message about that, because in the database I saw several pictures of airlines that were in Taiwan with their original name until I saw your message.  Smile Thanks for clearing it up.

I didn't realise that Cathay Pacific was also one of airlines that flew into Taiwan with its original name...and with me being a CX fan, I just wasn't paying attention!!

Paradox.
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: Paradox

Sun Oct 14, 2001 11:01 pm

No probs Paradox. Actually CX have about 12 DAILY flights from Hong Kong to Taipei... so there you go. Also they used to fly to Kaohsiung (2nd city in Taiwan) before Dragonair took over the route in 1994/95.

Jimmy
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

Air Taiwan

Sun Oct 14, 2001 11:37 pm

I was absoutely right.Singapore Airlines was the ONLY one to get PERMISSION to fly its OWN aircraft.And that's the truth.The U.S airlines didn't get the permission from China authorities if you really understand the whole situation and story.U.S airlines did not open a new airline, but Neither did they ask the authorities to fly under its say name, just like SQ.

Also, of course CX could fly under the name of Cathay Pacific!That's no big deal of course!You want to know why?Because Cathay pacific had NO FLIGHTS to CHINA, that's why they could fly to Taiwan under its own name.For other airlines, if they only fly to Taiwan but not China, use their own name, nothing to do with China.Some airlines dud, use their own names and fly to both CVhina and Taiwan, but NONE of them, yes NONE of them got permission like SIA did.

But okay, for Dragonair that's another story.Also for Air Macau, i guess it's because Hong Kong and Macau belongs to China, so that's why.But if it was before 1997, then Cathay would have to fly under TWO names because Hong Kong was under British Rule.And DragonAir was flying to China, and CX was flying to Taiwan, that's why CX could use its OWN name to fly to Taiwan.Or why would they start a new airline, Dragonair long time ago, and not let CX flies to China locations, just like profitting routes of Shanghai and Beijing that CX stilll wants to take control at the moment.
 
Alpha
Posts: 1367
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:03 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Sun Oct 14, 2001 11:55 pm

Hello,


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Eddy Cuperus




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Daenen Jos




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Remi Dallot




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Mark Durbin




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Richard Hunt



And so on...

Steph
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

9v-spk

Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:15 am

Oh okay I get you~ So Singapore Airlines was the only airline who actually APPLIED for permission to fly to Taiwan under its own name... and they got APPROVED by the mainland chinese govt... and what I'm saying is that MANY other airlines who DIDN'T apply STILL flew into Taiwan with its OWN aircraft... sorry about the misunderstanding.

Also, Cathay Pacific started flying into Taiwan shortly after they started in 1946 along with Manila, Bangkok and Shanghai. So they WERE flying into China and Taiwan at the SAME time.

DragonAir was only established in 1985 and initially served Xiamen (mainland China) and Kota Kinabalu (Malaysia). They started flying into PEK and SHA in 1990 using wet leased L1011s from Cathay. Before that, Cathay had been serving mainland China and Taiwan at the same time when HK was still a British colony.

As you said, before 1997 Hong Kong was under British rule... so how come Cathay flew to BOTH China and Taiwan during the 1980s??

So being not flying into mainland China at present is NOT the reason that Cathay used their own name to fly into Taiwan.

Also Dragonair flew to both China and Taiwan (Kaohsiung) from around 1994, and that was BEFORE the mainland Chinese govt took over in 1997. Air Macau also flew to both China and Taiwan before 1999.

One thing you've got right is that Cathay is eagerly wanting to restart its flights into China...

And just to get the facts right, it was not CX nor the Chinese govt who started up Dragonair in 1985, it was a man called K.P Chao who established Hong Kong Dragon Airlines as a SUBSIDIARY of his own company -- Hong Kong Macau International Investment.

Regards

Jimmy
 
BA747-436
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:03 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:19 am

I flew BAA B747-436 G-CIVB from LHR-LAX about 5 years ago. Don't quite understand what it was doing on this route, but it was nice to get the chance to fly this aircraft.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Do you think the tail of BAA is where the original idea for "World Tails" came from  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Dan Valentine - Bad Ass MOFO Photographer
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15698
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:28 am

I actually do think the BAA tails provided the impetus to the World Tails idea!

AC also flies to both Red China and ROC with its own aircraft (as did its predecessor CP).

Why dont the European airlines stop putting up with this nonsense and follow the lead of the North American & other Asian carriers. These little subsidiaries to fly to Taiwan add cost and reduce efficiency in the mainline operation.

Neil/Toronto
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:31 am

very true Neil!

Jimmy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:07 am

Just an addition about the Lufthansa/Condor flight:
Lufthansa just painted a 747-430M in Condor colours, which was 100% owned by LH. It was no lease, sourcing out or anything, on the inside it was completely LH.
And because the plane flew to TPE only twice weekly, she had to fly somewhere else of course as well - my father was on it on a flight NRT-FRA, and the crew actually apologised quite often for the Condor livery.

Daniel Smile
 
Paradox
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:17 am

RE: Air Taiwan & 9v-spk

Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:46 am

Yeah, Cathay is eager to start flying into China again as it would contribute a hell of a lot to their revenue. China is such a huge market that it would really increase the profitability of CX.

But Cathay would have to get permission from the CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) or whatever department in the Central Government for flying rights into China...because there was an interesting article in the SCMP a few months back discussing how Beijing is suspicious of Cathay Pacific because it is owned and controlled by British-based Swire Group and that it could damper CX's plans to restart flights into China.

First of all, I thought it was a Hong Kong-headquarted company! Not in the UK! Anyway, I think it's nonsense, CX is a HONG KONG-based airline and its defecto flag carrier and Beijing is just being silly again in my opinion.

What do you guys think of this?

Paradox.
 
Guest

RE: British Asia Airways - What Is It?!

Mon Oct 15, 2001 3:07 am

At the political side, European Countries are the only countries that are really "weak" when facing pressures from China. (That's what I heard few years ago) So, they add "Asia" in order to fly to Taiwan.

However, European airlines realized that Taiwan is not a good market because Taiwanese likes to buy CHEAP tickets. BA, KL, AN (Used to be), LH, DL, AF pull out TPE because they can't provide High-Class service if their prices is low.
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

Yes I Agree

Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:13 am

Paradox--

Yes I think you're right, it is quite childish for the mainland to put this political restriction to the airlines... and about CX flying into China, I think it's because KA (Dragonair) is majority Chinese owned but CX is British owned... Dragonair is actually planning to fly into Taipei, in competition with Cathay... interesting...

Jiml1126--

You're quite right, European govts are quite weak when dealing with the mainland Chinese... in an artical I read, they writer described the Europeans as "low pressure-resistant" to the Chinese... oh wells, that's politics...
And also I think airlines like Condor and Swissair and some other EU airlines fail the Taiwan market is because most Taiwanese people go to N. America and Australia/NZ... so there isn't that much a market (mainly tourist) for Taiwan-EU traffic... but amongst other I think KL is the most succesfull, they've been flying into Taiwan for almost 15 years now... and they've got a daily flight... (quite surprising when i discovered...)

Jimmy

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos