Guest

Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 6:37 am

Does anybody know if many airlines still let their cockpit-crew make fully manual landings(of course in cat1 conditions)
I know, for instance that SAS, Swissair and Sabena still have the procedure to land manually, wether Air Belgium prohibits their pilots to do a manual one for this costs more fuel.
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 8:51 am

I don't get the question? Auto land? Or pilot in command
landing? Please refrase the question.
Thanks!
 
Guest

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 9:04 am

If you are asking if the crew lands the plane or autopilot does. The crew of all airlines land manual most of the time unless the weather is under 600 feet vis.
 
Noel
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:35 am

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 11:49 am

Yes, that's correct. The pilot always does the landing unless the conditions fall under Cat II or III. Actually, it would be more stressful for the pilot to let the plane land because of the attention they must give to the autopilot's proficiency. I hope you are mistaken about Air Belgium because if they do what you say, they are VERY dangerous as the pilots become little more than advanced passangers. How would the pilots ever get training? Plus, it's no fun to let the a/p land the plane! :-)

Noel Benford
 
BryanG
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:59 am

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 2:44 pm

On Southwest Airlines aircraft, pilots do all manual landings in all conditions. That's because their aircraft aren't fitted with autoland systems. Instead, heads-up displays are standard on their planes. I don't know exactly why they choose to do this, but it works for them.
 
airbear
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 2:54 pm

I know its entirely dependent on weather conditions. autopilot can only land the plane if visibility is better than a certain distance. otherwise, the pilots need to do it manually. I dont think this answers your question but then again maybe it does
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Southwest,Alaska Landings ect..

Wed Oct 28, 1998 3:21 pm

Your correct about Southwest pilot's do all the landings except
when it gets to CATIII. Southwest pilots also do there own
navigation in some cockpits and they also do there own braking.
Alaska is the only airline I know that can land and take off in zero
visibility.
 
Guest

RE: Southwest,Alaska Landings ect..

Wed Oct 28, 1998 3:39 pm

I doubt Alaska is the only airline who can take off and land in zero visibility... There are plenty of airlines who have airplanes capable of taking off and landing in zero visiblity. The MD-11, 777, etc., are all planes that are capable of that aren't they? I was once on an MD-11 and when we landed, the visiblity was so bad that from my window seat, I couldn't see the surroundings or even the surface of the runway until we actually touched down on it.
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Southwest,Alaska Landings ect..

Wed Oct 28, 1998 3:48 pm

I said that I know of. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Doesn't FinAir have some sort of the same system
Alaska has?
 
Noel
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:35 am

RE: Automatic Landings

Wed Oct 28, 1998 10:45 pm

The autopilot can land the plane in 0-0 visibility, and a pilot can't and is not allowed to if the vis is that bad. The autoland function does have a crosswind limit so it can't land the plane in all conditions. Also, if the runway is not equipped with Cat II/III autoland functions, autoland cannot be done, and the plane is diverted to the filed alternate.
Noel Benford
 
Guest

RE: Automatic Landings

Thu Oct 29, 1998 1:20 am

Sad but true, More and more airlines state that the captain must file a report when landed fully manually ( that is with NO AUTOTHROTTLE),for manual adjustments consumes far more fuel than automatic throttle. It was my intension to cause a new "hot" topic on this site.
I do not invent this,you can trust me, I grew up in the aviation world and I am in the progress of becoming an airline pilot.
 
Winglet
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:24 am

RE: Automatic Landings

Thu Oct 29, 1998 7:42 am

Automatic landings are done if the visibility is below a certain number, not above. So when it's really bad the autopilot lands the plane. For the autopilot it ofcourse doesn't matter how bad the visibility is since it cannot see anyway. If the visibility is good the autopilot can ofcourse still do an automatic landing but usually the pilots prefer to do it them selves in these conditions. As far as Air Belgium is concerned I think you must have gotten wrong information since they tend to fly to places in southern Europe quite a lot where they haven't got ILS equipped runways. And without an ILS (Instrument Landing System) you simply cannot do an autoland. Many pilots will also occiasionally do visual landings (weather permitting), meaning they will not use any instruments for landing, just visual cues. Hope this answered your question.
 
Guest

RE: Automatic Landings

Thu Oct 29, 1998 9:06 am

You can land in bad weather with out ILS. The way they do it is radar and ATC will guide them in and when they cross certain points you should be at a certain allitude.
 
Noel
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:35 am

RE: Automatic Landings

Thu Oct 29, 1998 11:25 am

Bad weather may not mean that an autoland is needed. To pass through that "assigned altitude" in bad weather, though, some things must be in view. Either the runway, runway end lights, the "rabbit" (sequenced strobes),runway threshold, runway threshold lights, any of these or all of them. To pass below the DH (decision height), there are criteria to be met. If on an ILS, the usual DH is 200 ft AGL, but it may be higher for some circumstances. For ILS autolands, it depends on carrier-specific details. The runway MUST have CAT III and/or CAT II ILS capabilities or the autopilot has NOTHING to land with, trust me! :-)For visual or radar approaches, the DH is much higher, so autolands cannot be done without visual cues when using radar.
Noel Benford