Guest

When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:12 am

I have an encyclopedia of every single aircraft ever produced. In the MD-11 section, it says that McDonnell Douglas will be building the MD-12 to succeed the MD-11. I hope this is true and I hope it looks like the MD-11, cause I think thats the greatest jet liner ever. Of course that is my opinion.
 
transswede
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:15 am

Since Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas, and have shut production of all their types (and probably will soon for thr 717), the chance that there will be an MD-12 is ... How should I put it ... Very remote!
 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:19 am

Damn Boeing!!! Lockheed should make the L-1011 with winglets and make it alittle longer. I love the L-1011 too. Why are all the companies making crappy airplanes? Is there any company that is making a three engined aircraft at the moment?
 
stephen007
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:21 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:24 am

Mcdonnell Douglas is eaten by Boeing since 1997. Sigh! talk abt market capitalisation! Boeing killed the MD-11, MD-80s (and modern MD-90s) and the stillborn MD-12. I don't really think B717 (MD-95) will survive for long. Competes directly in market of B737NGs and with the airline slump, B717s seem on the brink of being axed.
MD-12s arent going to be built since 777LRs and 744s are around.
 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:26 am

Well I just fell in love with airbus  Smile haha
 
philb
Posts: 2645
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RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:30 am

Sorry, but if there was ever a crappy airplane it is the MD11.

Difficult to handle at low speeds, a pig in crosswinds, an accident record no-one can envy and now destined to haul packages and freight - but only because of the huge interior and hold.

I feel sorry for the FedEx, UPS etc. crews who are going to have to put up with this ill conceived piece of metal's tantrums for the next dozen years or so.

As for the MD-12, please keep up. Boeing took over McDonnel Douglas and no more MD series aircraft will be built.

The MD-11 was a disasterous end to an extremely fine line of commercial aircraft.
 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:34 am

Well I know Boeing bought out MD. But wouldn't boeing want to build a three engined aircraft? Personally I love the 777, but I would never want to travel on it across the oceans.
 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:37 am

Wouldn't you think it would be cool if Airbus build something close to the md-11 model? except change the winglets and make it a side stick configuration. that would look pretty cool.
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:43 am

The tri-jet concept for long haul aircraft was a compromise of the late 1960s design departments when the reliability of large fan engines had not been proved.

Airlines wanted smaller aircraft than the B747 for some routes and it seemed ludicrous to have four big engines hauling a smaller widebody but, especially over water, safety was deemed paramount. Three engines suited the safety guys, the passengers (those who noticed) and the accountants.

Twin engine reliability is now so good that a trijet does not make sense any more. If you really want 4 engined safety (and I as an old codger still do) you buy a 747 if you need large, or an A340 if your need is smaller.

If you don't want four engines then the B777, B767 or A330 in various sizes will fill your every need.
 
stephen007
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:21 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:48 am

how about MD-10 conversion? besides fitting in the EFIS cockpit to bring it to 2-man operations, are they going to crank up and tweak any of the "crappy" misgivings of the DC-10?

it's true trijets have past their time in today's airline industry
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:50 am

Not sure what "misgivings" you are referring to.
 
L-1011-500
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:40 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:57 am

My thoughts (in an overly concise manner):

*The MD-12 will not be built.

*Md_11man - Crossing the ocean in a twinjet is safe, especially a 777; in fact the probability of failure is higher with a trijet such as the MD-11.

*The Md_11 was a let down - still a good plane, but its competitors (A330/A340 and 777 are far superior). I think had MDC worked out the kinks earlier, before consumer confidence was tarnished, more would be in the skies.

*The L-1011 rules, as do trijets, but I strongly doubt the likelihood of them returning to the skies in the forms of new models from Airbus or Boeing.

Tootles-

L-1011-500
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:39 am

Trijets: Great concept. Maintainability of the No. 2 engine is superb.  Yeah sure Not to mention the incredible fuel efficiency of having three engines instead of two  Yeah sure And what better plane to be in in the case of an uncontained engine failure?

Honestly - I love trijets because they look awesome and make nice pics. But as design, they're flawed.

Regards

Ikarus
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:01 am

If you ever get a chance to go to Santa Monica airport, check out the museum of flying. It has some really cool old military stuff, from WWII and such, and some old comercial planes, along with new ones. They have a very cool model of the MD-11, which is like 12 feet long, as well as a smaller, but still pretty big model of the proposed MD-12. Remember, Santa Monica airport is the old airport where Douglas used to make all their aircraft in the 50s and I think early 60s before moving to Long Beach.

-aio86
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:16 am

when will they build the md-12? NEVER
 
sdate747
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:25 am

***********************************************************************

Can Anybody Post a Picture of The Proposed MD-12 Design? I am sure it was a beautiful plane just like the MD-11. Also a trijet I assume?

***********************************************************************
 
dragogoalie
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:58 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:55 am

was the MD-12 project the blended wing and body plane?

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
garuda
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 10:53 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:11 pm

MD-12 concept is a quad jet double decker similar to A380. There is a concept drawing and a one-page ad in Air Transport World, April 1992 (I think....I found one copy in my attic)....

MDD also planned to launch a DC-11 (not similar to MD-11) in early 70's. You can read more in my previous post.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/612511/

 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:21 pm

Interesting, I found this off of Klune Industries

"By combining unparalleled manufacturing expertise with innovative engineering techniques, Klune Industries satisfies a wide range of commercial aircraft requirements. We excel at both mature airplane design and "first issue" applications, with the diversification to quickly respond to AOG and production requirements. Previous successful aircraft applications include thrust reversers and APU units to nacelle systems and flight hardware assemblies. Systems applications include MD-11, MD-12, MD-80, MD-90, DC-10, Boeing 717, 777, 737, 757, 767, Airbus 318, 320, Bombardier L-45, DASH 8, -300, -400, RJ700, 900, as well as Rolls Royce, General Electric, and Pratt & Whitney engines."
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 7:25 pm

The A380-like MD-12, proposed in 1992, would have had virtually all the fuselage built by AIDC in Taiwan, an agreement was signed at the Farnborough airshow that year.
Quite apart from the fact that this was a huge leap for AIDC, previously having only licence-built US aircraft like the F-5E fighter, prop and jet training aircraft of their own design, and a not very successful light-fighter with help from GD, the unions in the US reacted with horror. They could see many of their members job's ending up in the far-east. This was way beyond offset or subcontractor work.
Anyway, MDD's financial position made the MD-12 doubtful, the military side of the company, which had long subsidised the loss-making airliner division, was soon to suffer the post cold-war defence rundown.
Soon after the agreement, AIDC clearly realised that the MD-12 was not a viable proposition, and the deal died.
 
nfx
Posts: 172
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RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:43 pm

 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:49 pm

I agree. We want a NEW TRISTAR. Heck, we could all pitch in a litttle $$$ for it, right? LOL. Sigh, I just don't know how much longer I can take the 757, A320 and what not. I love those old a/c. The 727 is very unique for its rear staircase. Soon in the database, its only going to be new new new a/c.
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:21 am

PhilB,

You obviously have never qualified on the MD-11. Your info is far from accurate, based on rumors that were spread by Boeing marketing at one time. The MD-11 is not hard to fly, and with the latest FCC load it is a very nice flying airplane, a real pleasure to fly.
 
Guest

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:28 am

I have been doing some research and it sounds like the MD-12 was made to counter the at that time A3XX (A380). However, info on pax loads have varied I have seen figures from 395 pax to 650 pax.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
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RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:35 am

Seagull; Try telling that to the other pilots who fly the plane. FEDEX pilots don't call it Mega Death 11 or the scud for no reason. The 11 was one of the biggest screw ups by MD which is why they ain't producing no more aircrafts. This plane has an accident/ incident rating equivilant of the 707 and DC-8 afte only 10 years of service! This is exceeding the DC-10! Robert Crandall called it a dissapointment. The plane can't fly far on a full payload and it guzzles too much fuel which is why he cancelled the reamining orders. SIA got rid of ASAP. Are you really an MD-11 Captain or are you some guy blindly defending this aircraft.
"FUIMUS"
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 2:58 am

One MD-12 proposal was indeed a stretched MD-11, later it was designated for the all-new 4 engined double-decker.
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:14 am

F**k all new A/C, long live L1011, DC10 and B727!
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:44 am

Virginia,

You have no idea what you're talking about. FedEx MD-11 pilots do NOT call the MD-11 anything negative, in fact, virtually all of thost that HAVE flown the MD-11 love it! The bad name comes from those who have NOT flown it!

The fuel consumption figures you cite are inaccurate as well. Actually, the range is just fine, and it carries more cargo payload than a 777 for any given range. Why do you think FedEx, Lufthansa and UPS like it?

The stats you cite as also misrepresentations in the same way that Concord went from the statistically safest aircraft in the world to the most dangerous after one accident! This is ignoring the fact that most of the MD-11 accident causes have been completely unrelated to the design of the aircraft.

Stop drinking the Boeing marketing cool-aide!
 
RC Pilot
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 11:21 am

RE: When Will They Build The MD-12?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 4:16 am

"f**k all new aircraft, L1011, dc10, and b727!"

thats real mature. obviously someone doesnt like change.

Ill agree some of the paths these ac builders are taking i dont like but i dont just not like them. how can you just hate a plane