PolAir
Topic Author
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 2:20 am

Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 12:50 am

Does anybody know info about this accident? Couse?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=196843
 
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 12:57 am

Yes!
this accident happened after touch down in Poland.
The brakes didn't work and the plane crashed over the end of the runway. the F/O died. I'm not sure if there where more fatalties.
As far as I know this Airbus had problems with the autobrake sensors. The autobrake only works if a minimum pressure of ? tons work on the gear.
But this time the sensor was blocked so came the overshoot!

regards SQ
 
cfm-56
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:04 am

Wasn't there also speculation on the landing being so
smooth that the sensors did not react because they
thought they were "still in the air" ???


"In thrust we trust" CFM56
 
PolAir
Topic Author
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RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:04 am

It sure looks like more people died there....
 
PolAir
Topic Author
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RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:07 am

Altough i am from WAW originaly i did not pay attention to this accident because at the time i was 11, and "aviation did not infect my blood" yet, i remembersome LH autorities saying that runway in WAW was a factor. They said it was in very bad condition.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:39 am

As always, there were many small causes which contributed to the crash of the "Kulmbach":

1) Shortly prior to touch down the wind had turned. ATC did not inform the crew of this so they landed, unbeknownst to the, with a tailwind.
2) Due to the bad state of the runway there was water on the runway. This water turned into steam when the plane touched down because of the heat caused by touching down. The wheels floated on the stem, thus not rolling, and consequently the aircraft´s computer didn´t allow braking. Braking became possible only when the steam had evaporated; by then, an overshoot was inevitable.
3) This would have been not fatal but for an earth wall piled up directly by the end of the runway into which the plane crashed and burned out.

The ONLY fatality beside the F/O was a passenger who had unbuckled immediately upon touch down.
The F/O died because the captain turned the a/c to the left just before imfacting the earth wall. He did so in order to increase the chances of survival for the passengers (apperently successfully).
The F/O was actually a captain checking the real captain who was returning from a very long sick leave.
The captain continued flying for LH a few more years. Then he decided to quit flying altogether and became a painter. I don´t remember whether the crash contributed to his decision, I watched some interviews of his.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Smile


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rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:40 am

As far as I remember the accident was partially caused by aquaplaning. By the time of the accident there was a lot of water on the RW so the tyres got no grip and the computer considered this lack of grip as a sign of "not being landed" thus refused to deploy thrust reversers. However, this would have been the only means to stop the plane.

I remeber that the media said that there was more water on the RW than would have been allowed according to what standards whatsoever.

raben
 
fly_emirates
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 4:30 am

Michael!

if you didnt know about the crash that happend were you live then how would other people know  Big grin

J/K

well, i dont blame you.. i mean i wasnt keen on the airline industry until i had that emergency landing, thats when i wanted to become a flight attendant



 
katekebo
Posts: 678
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RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 4:45 am

Airsicknessbag is partially right.

There were other details. The pilot flying (which was the FO) landed at higher speed that prescribed in the flight manual. This contributed the extend the landing distance.

Another problem was the logic in the airplane software. The Airbus software was designed to extend spoilers and start braking after the speed of BOTH landing gears reaching a certain minimum. However, due to aquaplanning the wheels did not reach the required speed until well into the ground roll. I think the software of the Airbus planes was modified after this accident more in-line with the logic used by American planes (which is usually based on the shock absorber pressure),

The investigation concluded that the main causes of the accident werê:

1.- Pilot's fault due to landing at considerably higher speed than prescribed in the flight manual

2.- A contributory fact was the design of the airplane's software.

 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 5:50 am

My cousin-in-law is a firefighter in Warsaw and he and his unit responded to the crash. They have lots of pictures of the incident in their fire station. He said that there weren't more casualties because the all the passengers managed to escape before the fire spread, and that most of the damage was done when there was no one onboard.

Also you guys almost have it. The crash was caused by the late deployment of reversers by the computer, but it wasn't only due to hydroplanning. The crash occured during heavy rain and substantial windshear, so they were fast because they compensated for the windshear, which is one of the faults attributed to the crew. Also when the plane touched down, the right gear actually touched down first, then 9 seconds later, the left. Then only after the left touched down, the computer deployed the reversers. Then for four seconds the plane hydroplanned and both wheels slowly got to a speed of 72kts that's when the wheel braking was activated. But by then the pilot already knew he couldn't stop, so he turn the aircraft off of the runway.... the plane then skidded for 90 meters and hit the embankment


Here's the CVR transcript.
http://aviation-safety.net/cvr/cvr_lh2904.shtml
 
PolAir
Topic Author
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RE: Does Anybody Know Anything About This Crash?

Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:30 am

Jesus Christ, if F/O knew that the landing was already screwed couldn't he just go around???????? Its that simple. If u are not 100% sure- GO AROUND!!!