Guest

"Heavy Minimum"

Thu Oct 25, 2001 10:42 am

A while back someone was talking about how a 757 was reffered to as "Heavy." Then someone responded saying that heavy was any aircraft thats take-off weight excceded i think it was 250,000 or 275,000lbs, I forget what it was. Anyways I was reading through the A.I.P. Canada (Aeronautical Information Publicatin) and it said Heavy was reffered to any aircraft with a take-off weight of 300,000 lbs or more. Does every country have a different number? Let me know.
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:27 am

Oh boy...This war again...

The U.S. standard for heavy is this:

Any plane with a 255,000 lb or greater MGTOW weight (SPECIFICALLY the 757) is a heavy.

Yes, the friggin' 757 is a Heavy.

255,000....not 250,000 or 260,000. Why? Because that's the MGTOW of a 757, damn it.
 
b767-400er
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 11:07 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:37 am

Yes, but MD11_man wants to know if every country has it's own set weights. You didn't read the question carefully did you? (Don't blame me for being too picky, blame the Ontario Education system!)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Tony,
B767-400er
 
ScooterTrash
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 10:39 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:07 pm

Woah... for 9 years of flying, I have always thought that a heavy aircraft was 300,000 pounds. But I just whipped out my 2001 FAR/AIM, and low and behold, there it is... 255,000 pounds! Maybe I should read that book a little more often.

They must have changed that just for the 757, which produces rather strong wake vortices for an airplane of its size.

As for each country setting its own number, I would imagine that they could since ATC seperation minimums are different in different countries. One more thing to keep track of when flying outside the contiguous 48 states!

Regards, ScooterTrash
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 10:28 am

Well, if the AIP says 300,000 and the FAA says 255,000, then I guess each country does have it's own number.

Is that a satisfactory answer, B767-400er?
 
Guest

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 10:33 am

You guys are hopefully not gonna argue over aircraft weight. So in the states a 757 would be "heavy" but here in canada it would not. hmmmm. thats rather quite interesting  Smile
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 10:39 am

No, unless someone is going to tell me that a 757 only weighs 2 pounds...
Then I might argue.
 
Guest

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 10:41 am

LOL!  Smile
 
milldoh
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 11:19 am

Is there a reason that 757s are not referred to as "heavy" on ATC (at least at EWR)?
 
Falcon Flyer
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:10 pm

"Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 11:41 am

My understanding is that for wake category purposes, the 757 is classified as heavy but not for ATC. How that applies to the 757-300 is unclear to me. I have never heard a 757 referred to as heavy either on ATC. Maybe someone from one of the operators can clarify.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
Guest

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 12:29 pm

Falcon Flyer, you're right. ATC never addresses 757s as heavies. Even tho they are subject to the same wake turbulence criteria. According to FAAH 7110.65 (basically the FARs for ATC) section 2-1-20:

WAKE TURBULENCE CAUTIONARY ADVISORIES
a) Issue wake turbulence cautionary advisories and the position, altitude if known, and the direction of flight of heavy jets OR B-757's to:
1. TERMINAL: VFR aircraft not being radar vectored but are behind heavy jets or B-757's...

757s even get their own wake turbulence seperation criteria. Aircraft enroute or outside the terminal area:

1. HEAVY behind HEAVY - 4 miles
2. SMALL/LARGE/HEAVY behind B757 - 4 miles
3. SMALL/LARGE behind HEAVY - 5 miles.

According to the FARs, the 757 is a heavy, according to the FAAH, the 757 is just some oddball aircraft that messes up the whole system.
 
61Heavy
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 3:47 am

RE: "Heavy Minimum"

Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:11 pm

ICAO and the FAA do have different definitions of "heavy" when it comes to callsigns. The FAA defines a "heavy" as an aircraft capable of takeoff weights greater than 255,000 pounds and ICAO uses 136,000 kg (about 300,000 lbs).

Now, for the 757: Although Boeing produces the 757-200 with an MTOG of 255,000 pounds, different airlines choose to limit their 757 MTOGs to different numbers (to reduce weight-based landing fees, etc).

UAL 757s, for example, have an MTOG of 240,000 lbs. You'll never hear one be called a heavy. Other airlines may designate Boeing's 255,000 lbs as their MTOG.

767-300's are always heavy in the U.S.