VS744
Topic Author
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Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:03 pm

On the news today, it said a man in the US had "accidentally" taken a handgun onboard a US carrier. The man, managed to take the gun "without realising" and as soon as he knew, he informed a stewardess who alerted security.

the gun was licenced, however, he still managed to board.
Does this give you confidence of travelling in the US?

Anyone have details on the full story?
 
contrails
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:10 pm

How can anyone have a gun in their luggage and not know it?

The passenger was on a WN flight from MSY to PHX, and the gun in question was a derringer, a pistol that in most cases holds only a round or two. The passenger was questioned but later released. The incident was labled a "mistake". The security screener who allowed the gun through was fired for incompetence.

Another example of how our airports are anything but secure. How long will it be until the FAA wakes up and gets serious about security?

Flying Colors Forever!
 
Cathay Pacific
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:17 pm

i am more concern about the security.....how could this happened???? especially after 9-11???? is the security in USA a joke????

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Cathay Pacific....The Heart of Asia  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
DELL_dude
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:17 pm

Bizarre...
 
VS744
Topic Author
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:38 pm

So basically, nothing has improved since september 11. I suppose it is easy enough to sack the person involved, but I would put my money on a management/government failure to provide the right sort of training!!
I hope Osama Bin Ladens cronies didn't hear about this!
 
Cathay Pacific
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 1:08 am

how many more people need to die before they really improve the security???
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
VS744
Topic Author
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 1:20 am

Either another 6000, or just one member of the US government.
 
VirginA340
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 1:31 am

I've said it beofre. i'll say it again since 1990. Fire those damn lazy burger flippers and put the US Customs, National Guard or State Troopers in charge. It is clear USA hasn't learned from PA 103. Those who do not follow up on their history is doomed to repeat it. It looks to me that every single member of the FAA has failed history on wehat happens when it becomes a beaurocracy and bends backwards for the airline managment bottom line as well as back pedals on aviation security. It's also about time the NTSB has more power equal to the FAA or exceding it.
"FUIMUS"
 
EWRvirgin
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:16 am

The only way to eliminate this threat is to do a total hand search of passenger bags and of passengers themselves. Weapons will from time to time make it through an x-ray machine or metal detector without being spotted or detected. However sensitive this equipment is, it is not fullproof.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:23 am

Quick update: the incident occurred on Tuesday morning. The passenger (supposedly) forgot he had it with him, it made it through security at concourse B (Southwest), boarded the flight, during the flight remembered he had it, told the FA, turned it over to the pilot, was then interviewed by the FBI in PHX, and continued to SAN. He may or may not be charged.

The ITS security guard who screened him has since been fired. As a reminder, with US airports, checkpoint screening is done by the airlines, who pay for the security contractor to perform the screenings. It's all part of FAR Part 108, which details airline security.

The incident did get a bit of play on the local news channels last night.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
sushka
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:41 am

The US customs is soooo bad that when I brought my cat to the US for the first time they didnt even check her!
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
Guest

RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:41 am

I thought Barry Switzer learned his lesson the first time.  Smile

(for those who don't know, Switzer is the former head coach of the Dallas Cowboys and "accidently" carried a loaded pistol into the airport, DFW I beleive)

 
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solnabo
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:46 am

Wake up and smell the gunpowder......
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
cx340
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:47 am

Well, airlines or airport authorities are going to have to start to do profuse hand searches of ALL luggage. Actually, in Monterrey's airport (Mexico), they are already doing it. A special agent is located right in front of the check-in counter, and asks you to open your luggage and reviews it before yo check it. Its time consuming but safety is first!
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 4:28 am

Again, in the US, checkpoint security is (by law) an AIRLINE function. The airlines are responsible for conducting all passenger screenings. The airport itself does NOT have that responsibility or that authority, and cannot regulate passenger screening.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
klm744
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 4:36 am

Why did the guy even say anything. If I was in his position and did not have any intention of using the gun, I would have just kept that little piece of info to myself. The guy made a mistake and now he may face criminal charges because he turned himself in. What was he thinking.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 6:21 am

(for those who don't know, Switzer is the former head coach of the Dallas Cowboys and "accidently" carried a loaded pistol into the airport, DFW I beleive)

I remember that incident and as I recall he was caught at the security checkpoint and ended up having to pay a fine, and yet this guy at MSY gets on the plane and winds up only being questioned and released, but I haven't seen any mention of him having to pay a fine. What's up with that?

LoneStarMike

 
UAL-Fan
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:52 am

I totally agree with Virgina340. US Security is a total joke!

I predict it will take at least one, if not two more disasterous hijackings to wake people up. The sad thing about Americans is that they love to forget. Just get on with life as usual as if nothing ever happened. Oh yes, be sure to hop right back on planes again so the Airlines don't go belly up. Never mind if the Airlines or the Government have done virtually nothing to insure our Safety.

I am a frequent flyer and have been on 5 r/t flight since 9/11. The "I don't care, it could never happen again" attitude people have just freaks me out.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:58 am

Perhaps because he mentioned it before he was caught. The feds, I presume, are pretty flexible in regards to punishment when you turn yourself in, compared to when you're caught.
 
mandala499
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:40 am

Last night, CGK security searched my bag because of a few slides! If the Xray in a 3rd world country can pick out my slide as a metallic substance and the metal detector picked out a box of slides in my pocket, why can't a US security checkpoint pick out a gun?

This worries me... A LOT.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
speedbird092
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:46 am

I'm sure its all a mistake but just an observation... .
the man carrying the gun is lucky that he reported his gun as opposed to the security guard catching him with it.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:50 am

US security at its best again !!, Thats what you get when you pay the security people the same as the guy at Burger King !!!
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Fri Oct 26, 2001 12:01 pm

I heard that Burger King has higher standards than security...and higher pay!

Seriously, just how do you forget having a gun?
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
VirginA340
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:48 am

All I hear is this BS! Get back on the planes! Get Back on the planes! Oh poor airlines and their millions! We'll what about the millions of hard working Americans that pay their hard earned $$$ to get from point A-B without getting hijacked, shot, stabbed or crash into a building! Again The FAA needs a major clean house, Get the NTSB in charge and force the airlines to do a task not negociate like the FAA.
"FUIMUS"
 
penguinflies
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Sat Oct 27, 2001 10:08 am

hey there was a guy at COS who took a 12-gauga two barrel shot gun through two security checkpoints.
 
copter808
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Sat Oct 27, 2001 11:21 am

It would appear that the "system" has failed again! Let's consider for a moment, the reality of what probably happened. Irregardless of how much the security folks are paid, think about the difficulty in picking a small weapon out from the clutter of what the scanner shows. I think most of us may be able to pick out a gun in a suitcase if we had enough time to study the image. How many of us would find it EVERY time if we spent 8 hours a day staring at those images? Could one get through--damn right it could!

The security measures are vastly improved--in most cases--over the pre 9-11 days, but there is no absolute way to prevent weapons from getting onto an aircraft. Hand searching ALL luggage will still let some things slip through! How about "weapons" that airline employees may have on the secured side of the airport? Take ALL possible weapons from the employees you say? Ever try to tighten a screw with a plastic screwdriver? How about cutting seat belt material with a plastic knife? Make absolutely sure that no employees have any possible weapons? How about the crash rescue folks? Do we take away thier knives as well? Where does it end?

I've seen 25 messages here (in this thread) all condemning the security people/system, but NOT ONE offered any reasonable suggestion about how to make it more effective!

Anyone who thinks that staffing the checkpoints with Military/FAA/NTSB/police/any of you, will prevent ANY weapon from getting through is only fooling themself!

Better screening and background checks of airside employees, and increased vigilance can go a long way, but it's still not 100% effective!
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Man Takes Gun On Board US A/c!

Sat Oct 27, 2001 1:48 pm

There was an earlier thread on this incident and I asked some questions, but unfortunately they didn't get answered, so I'm going to ask them again (plus some new ones I thought of).

Question about MSY security - the article (that I posted on the other thread on Wednesday) mentions that "the company that provides security at the New Orleans airport, International Total Services, is in bankruptcy."

Does this company supply security for all the airlines who use MSY or just for the airlines that use the same concourse as Southwest?

If it's for all the airlines, who makes the decision about what security firm to use, the dominant airline at MSY. or do all the airlines get a certain percentage of the vote based on their market share and majority vote rules? I'm assuming that since security is the responsibility of the airlines, that the airport would have no say-so in the matter and have to go with which ever firm(s) the airline(s) chose.

Let's assume for a moment that this had happened on an America West flight instead of Southwest. Let's also assume that America West wanted to use a superior security firm, but had to go with what Continental and Southwest (the 2 other carriers on Concourse B) wanted to use? If the security firm that Southwest and Continental chose allowed an America West passenger to slip through the checkpoint, would America West alone be responsible, or would all three have to share part of the blame?

In the theoretical case above, could America West use a different firm even though they share the same concourse with Southwest and Continental? If so, how would this be accomplished? Separate screening checkpoints at the America West gate for their passengers only?

When each concourse has it's own security checkpoints that are separate from the other concourses, like MSY, can different security firms be used? For instance, Delta has all the gates at Concourse D. If all the other airlines in the other concourses wanted to use the Fly-by-Night-Bankrupt Security firm and Delta wanted to use Brinks or another company with a better reputation, could they do so? I'm assuming the answer would be yes.

Is it more cost effective for all the airlines at a certain airport to use the same firm?

Also, are there any US Airlines which actually handle their own security, or do they all contract with outside companies? I read a recent article in the Denver Post that mentioned that Frontier was "studying" the possibility of having their own employees man the checkpoints at Concourse A at DEN.

Thanks for any insight anyone might be able to provide.

LoneStarMike