QANTASforever
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Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 3:06 pm

Here is an article I got off the Qantas website: www.qantas.com:

Qantas Buys Boeing 737-800s
Sydney, 28 October 2001 :

Qantas Airways Limited said today it had selected the Next Generation Boeing 737-800 aircraft to add immediate capacity to its Australian operations.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer Geoff Dixon said agreement had been reached for an initial order of 15 aircraft.

Options had been taken on another 60 aircraft to progressively replace existing 737-300 and 737-400 aircraft and to provide for growth.

The first aircraft would be in service in January. The remainder of the first 15 aircraft would be progressively introduced between February and July 2002.

Mr Dixon said Qantas had worked closely with Boeing and its oneworld™ alliance partner, American Airlines, to facilitate the speedy introduction of the aircraft.

The aircraft will come from existing orders that American Airlines had in place with Boeing.

"American Airlines will assist Qantas with technical advice, simulator training for pilots, spare parts and engines," he said.

Mr Dixon said the new aircraft would have Qantas interiors, more spacious cabins, more headroom and larger windows. They will be fitted progressively with new slimline seats.

The new aircraft will enable Qantas to meet the demand created by the collapse of Ansett Airlines and to provide for growth in all sections of the Australian tourism industry.

Mr Dixon confirmed that, as announced last week, the Boeing 737-800s would be the cornerstone of revamped Qantas domestic operations that will feature:

- the new aircraft, with an all economy class configuration of at least 165 seats, operating on services where there is small or no demand for business class travel;
- reconfiguration of a number of existing Qantas Boeing 737 aircraft to create a total fleet of about 40 all economy class aircraft;
- flights between Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane operated by larger, two class, wide body aircraft (Boeing 767s or Airbus A330s);
- regular two class Boeing 747 services between Perth and the East Coast of Australia and on long haul leisure routes;
- a significant increase in direct flights between capital cities with fewer stops at ports in between;
- an extension of the extremely successful Cityflyer service, which currently operates between Sydney and Melbourne, to Brisbane;
- expanded Qantas Club lounges;
- enhancement of the Frequent Flyer program with additional partners such as Diners Club.

Mr Dixon also announced that Qantas had decided to enter into a 10-year strategic alliance with American Airlines, the world's largest airline. Details of the agreement will be finalised in the next few weeks and will involve:

- Qantas using American Airlines specifications as standard for the replacement of the Qantas single aisle fleet (for example Boeing 737s), creating opportunities for short-term leasing between the airlines to cater for peaks and troughs in demand;
- Joint purchasing;
- Qantas progressively relocating to the American Airlines terminal at Los Angeles airport;
- Qantas commencing Auckland-Dallas-Auckland non-stop services when the new, long range Boeing 747-400 is delivered in late 2002. Dallas is a major worldwide hub for American Airlines, particularly to all major North American and South American cities;
- Expansion of the codeshare agreement between the two carriers;
- Expansion of the Frequent Flyer agreement.

Mr Dixon said Qantas had made a huge financial commitment to purchasing the new 737-800 aircraft despite real concerns about Government decisions to subsidise both the operations of Ansett Mark II and the expansion of Virgin Blue.

"As an airline, we have been outspoken against Government ownership of airlines, which is the ultimate form of subsidy in the international market," he said.

"We now see Governments and prospective Governments of all persuasions subsidising and proposing other assistance to our domestic competitors, one of which collapsed through management failures, overmanning and outmoded work practices.

"To subsidise particular airlines on selected routes will create distortions that could harm the industry for years to come.

"Using taxpayers' funds to prop up our rivals is the antithesis of what has been preached in Australia about competition in recent years," he said.

Mr Dixon said that after six years of very effective performance for Australia as a fully privatised company, it was not realistic to expect Qantas to prosper if its competition was subsidised.

"The national interest will not be served by limiting Qantas' chances of success in an attempt to artificially prop up less competitive players.

"Australia still has two domestic airlines and competition, capacity and a wide range of discount fares are re-emerging quickly," he said.

Mr Dixon said it was obvious to all observers that the industry needed to consolidate, and would indeed consolidate, and the practices that have hampered its development for years and harmed efficient carriers would only be further exacerbated by subsidies.











Issued by Qantas Public Affairs (2547)
Media Contact:
Michael Sharp 0408 480 145
Email: qantasmedia@qantas.com.au


So tell me, are QF planning to buy these aircraft with the optional winglets??

Thanks for your mature posts in advance.

Regards,

Qforever
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 3:21 pm

Well, all the news we've been waiting for, everyone thought that it will be the 737's that will take over. If AA asked for the winglets than maybe QF might get them. It's good to see a new fleet in Australia as well. Shame the A320 wasn't picked but maybe AN might get a few more to get rid of the aging 737's if they are getting old. not sure about that.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 3:31 pm

It was obviously a close contest and could have gone either way. Maybe QF will order some -700's down the line to replace the 733's.

Regarding AN Mark II, if they are truly interested in operating a tight ship...they should probably keep the 733 in service. The 733's are not old and have a good 15 years of life left.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
The Coachman
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 3:38 pm

The thing that really surprised me was the AKL-DFW non-stop.

I suppose this will go SYD-AKL-DFW? or MEL-AKL-DFW

I'm very hopeful of one thing though.

Notice it said 'following American Airlines specifications'. Does that mean MRTC in QF 738's? I hope so!

The Coachman

M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
Guest

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 3:38 pm

AN is dead
 
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yyz717
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 4:25 pm

I'm also surprized at the AKL-DFW route. There's no way this will last. Incidently, ANZ actually flew to DFW briefly in the late 80's.

Despite the AA hub at DFW, the majority of Aus/NZ traffic to the US is the west coast, not the east coast.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
QANTASforever
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Coachman....

Sun Oct 28, 2001 5:18 pm

Could you please explain what MRTC is?
My 737 knowledge leaves much to be desired!

thanks,

qforever
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
aussie_
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 5:45 pm

I was thinking the same: what is MRTC?
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 5:57 pm

I sure hope Qantas doesn't move to the AA terminal at LAX like the article said. I'm a big fan of both airlines, QF especially, and it's part of the thrill going to the International Terminal and seeing your QF 744 sitting there amongst other airlines from all corners of the world. I love seeing 3 QF tails at a time at the International Terminal. I'm just being very picky, but I have my set ways.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
Marara
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:00 pm

AA introduced MRTC a while ago it is 'More Room Throughout Coach' about 35 pith isnt it?
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:00 pm

Also... will DFW-Auckland be longer than LAX-SYD or LAX-MEL?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
Bove
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:00 pm

MRTC = "More Room Throughout Coach"

Its AA's much-hyped effort to increase seat pitch in Y-class by removing 1 row of seats from the aircraft, increasing average pitch from 33" to 35".

Personally, I never notice the difference and I doubt QF will be too keen on the idea (seeing as how they want to fill this thing to the gills)
 
rlwynn
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:03 pm

MRTC is caused me to spend a couple of thousand dollars with AA this year. 35"+ legroom on evrey plane is more than enough to keep me coming back.

More Room Than Competitors.
I can drive faster than you
 
Bove
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:03 pm

Can QF's 733's and 734's fly coast to coast (e.g. SYD-PER).

I'm sure the amount of traffic justifies the 767 and 747's (on domestic legs of international routings) but I'm curious nonetheless. The 738 would certainly offer that kind of capability.
 
Tg 747-300
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:12 pm

This was good news for Boeing. I'm realy glad QF choosed the 737NG, but can't realy understand why they didn't go for the 320 due to their 330 order. (that ofcourse should have been b764 or 772)

BTW: How can the aircraft get bigger windows?

tg 747-300
Anyway
intentionally left blank
 
Bove
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:22 pm

Qantas Picks Boeing for Upgrade
By REUTERS




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SYDNEY (Reuters) - Qantas Airways Ltd said on Sunday it has chosen 15 Boeing Co (news/quote) 737-800 aircraft over rival manufacturer Airbus' A320s, and taken options on 60 more planes as it boosts capacity to cope with heavy domestic demand.

The flagship carrier also inked a 10-year strategic alliance with AMR Corp (news/quote)'s American Airlines, which would see the two carriers expand codeshare agreements and Qantas share Los Angeles terminal space with the world's biggest airline.

Qantas, which dominates 85 percent of the A$10 billion (US$5 billion) domestic market since the demise of rival Ansett Australia, said the fifteen new aircraft ordered were part of a

A$1.5 billion upgrade announced earlier this month.

``The new aircraft will enable Qantas to meet the demand created by the collapse of Ansett Airlines and provide for growth in all sections of the Australian tourism industry,'' Qantas said in a statement.

The first airplane will come into service in January.

The rest of the planes, which originated from existing orders placed by American Airlines, would be phased in from February to July 2002, said Qantas.

The airline recently raised A$450 million through a share placement to help fund the purchase.

The options on 60 additional aircraft, 20 more than originally expected, would be used to gradually replace the existing 737-300 and 737-400 aircraft in Qantas' core fleet of 111 Boeing planes.

Engines, which account for about a quarter of the value of each plane, would be provided by a joint venture of General Electric (news/quote) and French state firm Snecma.

PENCILS SHARPENED

Neither Qantas nor Boeing would give details on discounts negotiated on the next generation jets.

But Aerospace analysts have suggested the discount could be in the region of 25-30 percent as airlines around the world shed capacity and put new orders on ice after the September 11 air attacks on the United States.

``They were aggressive offers. In today's world, after September 11, things have slowed down a little bit,'' Doug Groseclose, Boeing's senior vice president of international sales, told Reuters.

``I'm sure both companies sharpened their pencils,'' he said, adding the catalog price for the 15 plane order was around US$910 million.

The beleaguered U.S. aircraft manufacturer lost the lion's share of Qantas' US$4.6 billion 10-year upgrade announced almost a year ago to arch rival Airbus SAS.

Qantas placed orders in November 2000 with Airbus for 12 of its A380 superjumbos and 13 A330s and with Boeing for six of its longer range 747-400s.

Groseclose said Asia remained one of the strongest areas for Boeing, which recently secured an order for 30 737 jet liners to China and hopes to have more Chinese orders in the near future.

The aircraft manufacturer said it also saw opportunities in the revitalization of Ansett Australia, which is up for sale after being put into voluntary administration by former parent Air New Zealand in September.

But while Qantas is beefing up its capacity, other carriers in Asia including Singapore Airlines (news/quote) are looking to defer aircraft deliveries.

``There have been some carriers in Asia that have asked us to take a look and we are working with them on that, but there's no major changes in their delivery schedules,'' Groseclose said.

Shares in Qantas, in which British Airways Plc (news/quote) has a cornerstone stake, closed Friday's session down nine cents at A$3.84, but are hovering around their highest levels since January.

Airbus is majority owned by multinational aerospace group EADS.
 
cfm-56
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:35 pm

This was good news for Boeing Smile I hope Qantas will also
go for the 739 sometime..but I don't understand that "bigger windows" thing,what would that be good for??? On a 737 the windows are just fine  Big thumbs up

"In thrust we trust" CFM56
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:54 pm

The thing that interests me is BA's position in all of this. They opperate the A32x family for shorthauls. They own 25% of Qantas and have some sway with them. Yet Qantas go for an aircraft specifically opperated by AA.

A few weeks ago there was talk of BA selling out of Qantas. As much as a bad situation AMR is in, I wonder if there is more to this...

I wish Boeing would update this onto their page - just cos they lost the JSF doesnt mean they have to go to pieces with their website...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 6:59 pm

BA will only have 22 percent stake soon anyway. Australia is moving less away from England, and here is another side of it, QF probably would rather do business with AA
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:02 pm

Another thought just hit me. Who else operate 738s in this part of the world? Air Pacific and Polynesian. Both of whom have close ties with QF (QF owns something like 42% of Air Pacific, I am unsure whether it has equity interest in Polynesian). Perhaps signs of even closer relations between Qantas and its Pacific allies. It would be interesting to see Qantas absorb its pacific allies, having it compete toe to toe with Air NZ int hat arena. I imagine some countries wouldnt be too please about their flag carriers succumbing to the white tailed rat, however...

Regardless, this seems to be an interesting time for Qantas. Lets just hope they dont get a taste of their own medecine and get run out of business by the competiton...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:09 pm

What you have to remember is that AA want to defer deliveries and QF was in a position to take them up.
I suspect some cross leasing here, and the fact that Airbus was never a real contender - it was just window dressing.

Forget about Boeing showing it as an order. All QF are doing is taking AA's aircraft off the showroom floor. AA may some way down the track, order more 737's - then and only then will there be a new "order".

As to the larger windows. BS!! The drawings for the B737NG show the same window as the earlier ones, unless they are taking deliveries of a/c with B777/B767-400 style windows. I do not think that is actually an option.

Oz777
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:11 pm

Another thought:

The 737 is the aircraft of choice in the low cost market. Last weekend Qantas was talking about cuting operating costs. Perhaps Qantas are getting spooked by Branson more than they are letting on - obviously it wont be as easy to buy him out as it was with other airlines in the past.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
dalecary
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:24 pm

another interesting point: the QF press release stated that AA specifications would become standard on it's new narrowbody fleet(for example 738). I gather there is some chance of other Boeing types among the 60 options,such as 752s and TWA 717 options. I don't think AA operate 73Gs or 739s.
To me QF are committed to be a dual-supplier airline and therefore try to maximise the discount they get for each new order.
Oz777: the SYD-AKL-DFW situation surprises me and makes me think this really is a new genuine QF-AA strategic alliance. Another site has just mentioned that AA owe QF big time now and expect QF to gain SFO slots when the US market picks up again. I'm still buggered as to why QF didn't order the 772ER/LR as the rumors were suggesting last year( and I for one know a 777 order was excruciatingly close). The 777 was touted in it's -200LR form of being able to fly SYD-DFW non-stop, which I imagine would be preferable to a via AKL service.

Dale.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:46 pm

How many 717 does QANTAS have? I think about 6
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 9:36 pm

QF have stated as well as these first 15, they are
going to convert their current 737s to one class
bringing this fleet up to 40, QF further state that
these aircraft will not fly SYD-MEL, MEL-BNE, SYD-BNE,
as they will use widebodies in 2 class, my question
is, what regional and holiday routes in Australia could
possibly utilise 40 737s full time, as we all know QF
at present do use 737s on the BNE-SYD-MEL triangle,
just had an hour with Aussie map, I can't see how
they could use this capacity.

Wirraway
 
The Coachman
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 9:43 pm

I don't see how SYD -

OOL, DRW, CNS, Hamilton Island, Mackay, Rockhampton, HBA, LST, CBR, ASP

and MEL - to those destinations can be 40 B737's...

seems like, the 717's will go if they want 40 all-economy B737's. Goodbye McGowan...contract cancelled.

This is getting very sticky...

The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
Marara
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 9:48 pm

mmm, maybe QF plan to get down and dirty in NZ. Where else can they use these extra planes?
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
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BNE
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 9:55 pm

I think 15 plus a further 40 737s sounds about right. 50 is a little optimistic.

Currently Qantas has
737-476 -22
737-376 -16
so theres 38

Ansett had the following.
A-320 -20
737s -18
BAE-146s -14 both 200 & 300 series.
CRJ-200 -12.
767s -10.

So from these figures there is probably room for 50 737s leaving the 767s to do the popular runs and enough for a new Ansett to take the 20 A320s. The only question would be some night and weekend runs on the 767s would be awfully empty between Brisbane and Sydney.


Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Sun Oct 28, 2001 10:32 pm

BNE
Yes, I can see your 38, but if you check a QF timetable
you will find a lot used on the SYD-MEL-BNE triangle,
the routes I can see them using:

BNE-CNS, BNE-ADE, BNE-TVL, BNE-ISA, BNE-MKY
BNE-HI, BNE-DWN, BNE-CBA

MEL-ADE, MEL-HBT, MEL-OOL, MEL-CBA, MEL-LTN,
MEL-MCY, MEL-HI, MEL-CNS

SYD-ADE, SYD-HBT, SYD-OOL,SYD-CNS, SYD-TVL
SYD-CBA

These are a few, but to run 40x 4-6 sectors a
day ???

Wirraway
 
Guest

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:05 am

Considering that AA is delaying 29 of 45 deliveries for 2002, I'm assuming QF is going to be taking the delivery slots for those 738's. Basically just slipping them in ahead of other customers.
 
aussie_
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:41 am

Howver QF has stated it will use 767s on MEL-ADL and SYD-ADL. That will cut out at least 5 or 6 737s from your plan wirraway... ADL needs business class seats, at least on peak services.
 
Bove
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:56 am

What you have to remember is that AA want to defer deliveries and QF was in a position to take them up.
I suspect some cross leasing here, and the fact that Airbus was never a real contender - it was just window dressing.


Airbus was offering exactly the same sort of deal with United A320's deferred/cancelled due to the economic
downturn. Both A & B have homeless aircraft in the showroom at present and both offered a similar deal to QF....no double-dealing here although its plain this deal ain't a moneymaker for either manufacturer.

QF would be well-advised to prevent Airbus getting too much leverage over them with the 330 and 380 on the way. Airbus' strategy is to get an airline 'hooked' on its products and then jack up the costs for spares, etc.

 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:29 am

Aussie

If your right that QF will also use only widebody
2 class on Adelaide from SYD and MEL, that makes
one wonder even more where they will use 40 737s
on leisure and regional routes, maybe they are
really going to the land of the long white cloud
to give the Kiwis a lesson on airline operation.

Wirraway
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:09 am

As to the number of B737's in the fleet, there are several strategic changes in the way that QF will be operating.

First: With the launch of "Australian", there will be a shift in the wide body capacity. While there is a capability at the moment to "slot" the B767's into the domestic scene, word has it that QF may lose the BA B767's as BA downsize the fleet, and the 767 once again assumes more importance in their operation. Despite the arrival of the A330 (and more about that later) QF willk have a shortfall in domestic capacity in 12-18 months.

Second: Dixon stated (and it was not picked up by the 'analysts') that QF intends to operate more point to point operations rather than hub. For that reason there will need to be slightly less capacity on the main trunk routes, but QF will still remain committed to frequency.
Remember the golden rule: Frequency beats capacity every time.

The shift to more point to point pairings is in line with the assesment by Boeing that slot availability at certain key airports will drive prices up and impact on timetable integrity. To get around that you avoid the congested airports (and SYD is an example) by flying point to point. Southwest in the USA has proved this method VERY successfully.

Once again it takes several more aircraft for this style of operation, but is well offset in operating out of cheaper airports and greater utilisation through less "ramp" congestion.

The only question will be cargo capacity - it will be interesting to see what AAE does.

As to Airbus. Interesting issue is the "out" clause in the A 380 contract. There are very real signs that the A380 may not appear as planned, and the proposed "in service" dates are starting to look a little fuzzy. Almost all the "orders" for the A380 are from cash strapped airlines (SQ and QF outside), so AI is quietly re-assessing the development costs. Also, and I know it is early days yet, the aircraft has to lose a lot of weight.

To sum up there are performance and delivery guarantees on the A380 for QF. If they are not met then QF may look elsewhere. Globally, there will be some changes. With the massive drop in demand for travel, and the demise of a number of operators, capacity at airports is not as critical in the short to medium term. So the need for the A380 may not be as rosy as first thought.

As to the A330's for QF. They came very cheap, but you need to look at the term contract for them. Are the A330's in fact being financed by AI (off QF's balance sheet) on 5-7 year terms?. If so it would be easy to not renew if the A380 does not appear, and Boeing still retain a very loyal customer.

Oz777
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:33 am

Oz777

What you say makes a lot of sense if they went
all Boeing buying at American Airline discounted
prices.

As I understand this 10yr agreement, during the
U.S. summer Qantas would short lease QF planes
to AA and during our summer we would short lease
AA planes for Australia, is that how you read it?

Wirraway
 
lubcha132
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 12:28 pm

its gonna look nice white w/red tail  Big thumbs up
 
jetkid
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:22 pm

Wirraway,

I assume your kidding!

QF's service in New Zealand to date has been shocking, traveled with them last weekend and I wont be going back, regardless of price.

Also Air NZ are in a similar situation to that of QF in Oz, they have effectively got the vast majority of the domestic business market signed up, and with the service they are providing I cant see people wanting to rush off to QF in a hurry.

I've had a better breakfast in Y on an Air NZ AKL/WLG flight than in J on a QF AKL/SYD flight, no joke.

Jetkid.
 
QANTASforever
Topic Author
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 3:06 pm

I think it would be very nice for spotters in Sydney and Dallas to take a look at some QF and AA ac in their respective airports. Very nice indeed.
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:18 pm

I very much doubt that there will be hybrid colour schemes at either operating region.

From my understanding there will be very little "seasonal" variation that will allow shuffling of aircraft - it certainly is not happening on a short term basis with BA who also have a complementary fleet structure to QF.

It is more about joint specification, and line production allocation flowing from a joint purchasing arrangement. That means when the aircraft comes off the line, a decision is made as to who needs it more for the short term. A quick paint job (or strip), interior refit and bingo a further addition to the fleet. Actaully not quite so simple, but it provides Boeing with continuity, and allows AA some leverage in deferal while the US market sorts itself out.

Apparently the United deal with the A320 was not quite that flexible - Qf would have prefered the A321, but being stuck with some possible A319's was not what they were looking for.

Oz777`
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:54 am

Oz777,

what QF/BA complementary fleet apart from the 744s and some 734s? The 763 are powered by different engines but as QF now have 7 ex BA RR powered 763s they could be regarded as partly complementary,I suppose. 738 v A32X and A330 v 777 doesn't sound too complementary to me. In fact all QF fleet decisions, apart from the extra 744 purchases ,since BA gained it's 25% stake have been diammetrically opposed to BA's fleet structure!!! There is a school of thought that it is a deliberate move by QF to prevent relationships from becoming too close.
My mail on the A320 offer to QF was that it didn't involve UA at all but another fellow oneworld carrier that happens to have a heap of orders/options on the A32X family and would be quite happy not to take some of these up in the present climate. It was ruled out partly on concerns of safely getting a new fleet type into the air in an extraordinarily quick time.
I also believe the A320/321 was the preferred NB option at QF before Sep 11 and most likely would have been ordered some time next year. The 739 in it's present form isn't terribly desirable, but a -900X version capable of holding 20 or more pax could be more preferable if it's ever launched.

Dale.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

Winglets

Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:26 am

I am not sure if QANTASforever's question has been answered yet, but a Boeing press release today confirmed that Qantas had specified the blended winglets for their 738s.

Aaron G.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

A No-entropy Zone!

Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:41 am

This is a great thread. 40 posts and everyone's still having a civil, informed discussion without slinging mud! Props to all! -Mark
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Guest

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 8:25 am

QANTAS winglets will be made in Melborne by Boeings Austrila division
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:00 am

The winglets feature prominently in the QF ads in the Sydney Morning Herald (SMH).

Dale, a B737-900X with 20 more pax = B757 capacity. It'd have to have an extra door because it's single aisle (the B767-300 can get away with it because the twin-aisle allows quicker evacuation. Perhaps Boeing will think about it in the future. Oh, the BA B767-336ER's are reasonably complementary because they use RR RB211-524H engines which are reasonably similar to the B747-438's which use RR RB211-524G. Just a small point.

Oh...just a quick question, probably answered before but because QF's B737-800's will have winglets and AA's B737-823's don't, does that mean QF's will be B737-838's?

Regards,

The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:07 am

Coachman,

the proposed 737-900X has larger emergency exits to allow greater capacity and beefed-up MTOW for greater fuel capacity/range. There are other planned changes as well. At the moment the A321 kills the 739 in terms of pax capacity(something like 189 v 210-220).
Agreed about the RR 763s, but look at fleet purchases by QF and BA since BA gained a stake in QF: they are almost diametrically opposed. I maintain it is not a coincidence.

Dale.
 
QANTASforever
Topic Author
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 1:14 pm

YAY! WINGLETS!!
I wonder If they will be red or left silver, a trivial question I know, but you gotta love those little livery details.
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Marara
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 2:57 pm

WANNA HAVE A LOOK !!!!!!!!

Click Here !!!!
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2001/photorelease/q4/pr_011029a.html

Sorry my school has disabled right clicking on images or i would have posted it straight into the thread
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 3:27 pm

QF 800 looks good, now I wonder if the Virgin Blue
800 due to be delivered in 2 weeks will also have
winglets.

Wirraway
 
QANTASforever
Topic Author
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 3:35 pm

YAY!!!! it looks awesome, I was trying to work out before how I would tell the difference from the 733 734 and 738 from a distance, but now with the winglets... not a prob.

exciting times.

Blake
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: Qantas Goes With 737-800

Tue Oct 30, 2001 4:00 pm

As far as I know the Virgin -800 will not have wonglets but I am not 100% sure of that...