zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:01 am

I don't understand. Why does NWA base most of its international flights out of DTW while MSP is larger? THey have tons of international flight out of DTW and only 4 or 5 out of MSP. I mean, I like NWA but they have screwed consumbers over at MSP by not letting other European airlines in because they are so powerful there. ANyone know why this is?
 
MAH4546
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:13 am

Because DTW is the bigger international O&D market. Same with Houston-based Continental, with it's biggets international operations at Newark, Dallas-based American, with it's main international gateway in Miami, and Washington-based USAirways with it's main interantional gateway in Philadelphia (which is thier smallest of thier three major hubs).
a.
 
zeus01
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:27 am

OK thanks. But about AA, isn't the largest international departures out of ORD? MIA doesn't seem to have as many flights as ORD.
 
Guest

RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:50 am

DTW has most of the international flights because of:

1. Its O&D traffic for local businesses. The Big 3, and numerous Fortune 500 companies are in the Detroit area. Most world automakers have facilities or suppliers in southeastern MI. Many more international companies than Minneapolis/St. Paul.

2. More centrally located for connecting traffic. MSP is too far North and West to get most connecting traffic to Europe. Detroit can pull European traffic from all of the midwest, the south, west-coast. MSP would limit the traffic from the midwest since most would actually be back tracking (ex. IND-MSP-FRA vs. IND-DTW-FRA or BNA-DTW-CDG vs BNA-MSP-CDG) DTW allows for a shorter crossing time than going into MSP.
As for Pacific traffic, most importantly its the O&D traffic, but its also more logical to have a majority of your trans-Pac & trans-Atlantic ops from the same location.

As for European carriers, they would be relying on O&D traffic in MSP and that simply doesn't exist for most routes.
 
Guest

MAH4546

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:53 am

Dude what are you smoking. US has hubs in PHL, PIT and CLT...

PHL is more than twice as big (population) as PIT and probably around 3-4 times as big as CLT...

You're saying PHL is the smallest? Simply wrong...
 
USAirways737
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:57 am

I think he probably meant operations wise. CLT and PIT have more US Airways flights than does PHL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:05 am

Zeus, AA's main trans-Atlantic operations are currently out of Chicago O'Hare (LHR, CDG, MAN, FRA, BRU plus some suspended/seasonal flights returing in April; future plans do call for thier main trans-Atlantic ops to be out of MIA and JFK, but not until 2007/8), but thier Miami operations, while only including three trans-Atlantic flights (LHR, CDG, MAD, +ZRH codeshare) include over 100 daily international flights to almost 50 cities, including long-hauls to Brazil, Argentina, Uraguay, Paraguay, and Chile that are just as long as trans-Atlantic flights.

Everett, I am not smoking anything. Philadelphia is USAirways's smallest major hub. I speficially mentioned that the reason it is the main trans-Atlantic gateway is because it offers the most O&D.
a.
 
seven_fifty7
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:10 am

>>Why does NWA base most of its international flights out of DTW while MSP is larger?<<

According to Northwest Airlines, Detroit is its "largest hub."
 
Continental
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:31 am

NWA should start international service from MSP to Rome, and Germany.
 
sin777er
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:34 am

Wheres MSP?
 
haveric
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:47 am

minneapolis-st paul, Minnesota, USA
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 12:04 pm

Same 3 reasons that determine the value of a house:
1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Cheers
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
NWA
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 12:57 pm

First off, I belive that detroit is a larger airport, and it is NWA's LARGEST HUB. It should be more like why isnt NW's headquarters in KDTW. where did you get MSP was larger?
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
watewate
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 1:01 pm

"I like NWA but they have screwed consumbers over at MSP..."

Aren't all the airlines screwing their customers at their hub airports? Last time I checked, that was the name of the game.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Does Anyone Here Ever Agree

Tue Oct 30, 2001 2:31 pm

It depends on what numbers you go by in terms of MSP being larger than DTW. In terms of passengers I do believe MSP is bigger, but DTW is bigger in terms of departures and arrivals.
Face in Detroit has a much larger exposure around the world that Minneapolis. Those companies that you name are for the most part US-based companies. Wheras Ford, GM, DCX are worldwide. Why do you think there is NW DTW-FRA (D10) & LH DTW-FRA (340), its because they are bring boat-loads of Germans over here for DCX. The connecting traffic for DTW has a greater business potential in the midwest, and south. Face it, ND & SD don't have a whole lot of business to offer.
You know what, you're talking to a passenger that likes DTW better than MSP, and I have absolutely nothing against MSP, its a fine airport. DTW may have its flaws, but its a lot better than it was, and will be 1000 times better (moreso than MSP) come Jan (or April).
We do have real reasons, you do don't seem to have any real reasons as to why MSP should have more international service. The airlines aren't stupid, they aren't going to put service where it isn't needed. Just because it is NW's headquarters doesn't mean it should have more international service. I don't know why you feel you are being screwed up there, when in fact no one is being screwed. The service exists where it exists. The Detroit Metro Area is larger than the greater Minneapolis region.

And as for those Lions, well they suck, what else is new. Detroit has known this for years, thats why no one cares. We've got the Red Wings. The Wild, come-on!! Thats fine, you can have the Vikings. Its o.k, I've got good ole' JoePa here at school.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 2:40 pm

Same with Houston-based Continental, with it's biggets international operations at Newark, Dallas-based American, with it's main international gateway in Miami, and Washington-based USAirways with it's main interantional gateway in Philadelphia (which is thier smallest of thier three major hubs).


Don't forget Chicago-based United, whose main international gateway is San Francisco.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
seven_fifty7
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 3:32 pm

Actually Zeus, you may want to know that Northwest is (and has been for awhile now) trying to finnagle a way to move its headquarters FROM Eagan, MN TO the Detroit Area. They haven't done so already because of some "deal" they made with the state of Minnesota that obligates NW to keep its headquarters there.

Northwest absolutely loves DTW. It brings in a lot of revenue with its very lucrative & high profile nonstop international routes such as NRT, KIX, PEK, SEL, LGW, MUC, CDG, AMS, etc., etc. Plus, all of that feed from the Midwest, upstate Michigan, the South, and southern Ontario does wonders to complement the 3+ million O & D population in the Detroit metro area. (And a lot of that population is quite affluent, especially from the northern suburbs).

--NW, pre-Sept 11, was even planning for its DTW-HKG nonstop. Who knows? They might wind up doing it anyway once the industry and the economy recovers.

In short, don't be surprised if a few years down the road Northwest will become just another company headquartered in Detroit. The airline and the Detroit/Wayne County/Michigan government have gotten verrrrry intimate over the years.

Don't worry. MSP will still play a major role in NW's hub & spoke operations even if it will no longer be NW's world headquarters.

One final word: You MSP'ers have always been spoiled with having TWO airlines simultaneously headquartered there... NW and North Central (later Republic) in the 60s, 70s, and 80s; and now NW and Sun Country! That's damn good for such a sleepy, severe wintry & super cold place like the Twin Cities!


P.S. I'm NOT from Detroit nor have ever been from there.
 
VirginA340
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 3:37 pm

It looks like CAArty is coming to his senses and is going to restore JFK Transatlantic service. What routes will be restored. Right now AA international ops is LHR and CDG. Everything was moved to ORD and MIA. The rest is codeshare.
"FUIMUS"
 
airlinelover
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 4:38 pm

I, for one, would LIKE NW to come to DTW for Headquarters! With the new Mid-Field Terminal, who knows what will end up happening!

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Braniff727
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:50 pm

I think DTW is also a bigger city. Additionally there are so many flights between DTW and MSP that it shouldn't make too much of a difference.

I think another reason may be because DTW doesn't get as bad winter weather as MSP meaning less weather delays.

I did hear through the rumor mill from some NWA employees that NWA is considering moving some offices to the DTW area, but other than speculation I haven't heard anything.
Climbing
 
nwa757300
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RE: WHy DTW And Not MSP (NWA)

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:04 pm

DTW is a much larger hub than MSP. The Int'l market has grown faster out of DTW than out of MSP, and the city of Detroit is 2 times larger than MSP. Most of the int'l service out of DTW was started because the auto industry wanted it and supports most of it. NW has said they want DTW to be the main Asian gateway of the US. They wanted to begin non-stop service to Hong Kong and reinstate Seoul plus add service to the interior of Europe once Midfield opened. I'm sure plans have changed a little since 9-11 though. NW does have plans to begin narrow-body (A320) flying out of NRT when the new runway opens and landing slots are awarded.