SN-A330
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Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Tue Oct 30, 2001 5:29 pm


After cutting the BRU-IAD route a while ago (together with Tokyo) Sabena is cutting more US routes as of november. Belgian radio news did'nt say which routes.

Anyone heard more about this? Any ideas which routes will be cut?

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
SabenaA320
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Tue Oct 30, 2001 5:42 pm

Hi

I've read on the website of "Gazet Van Antwerpen" that they will only fly to New York and Boston. All other routes will be discontinued.

Also the routes to Bamako, Ouagadougou and Casablanca will be canceled.

Will another airline be flying those routes?

Greetings
Ralf
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:18 pm

I can firmly confirm that from next week on, ORD, DFW & YUL will be cut from the SABENA North America long haul network du to lack of cash to operate.
Bamako, Ougadougou and Casablanca (though this one is a medium haul A320 sector route) will also be stopped.

Furthermore, this is to prepare the complete stop of Sabena from next week on. The managment intends to make a quick transition to DAT, to ensure that all other flights will well fly.
The cut to US routes is explained by the fact those flights were well fully booked in Y-class but with almost only discount and cheap tickets. Sabena made a huge commercial discout campaign on its fares in september that filled all its US flights and now complains that those become low-yield flights (!!!!).

Potential buyer and partner, AA, could very soon upgrade its operations to BRU (ORD-BRU in 777) and take over the DFW flight to face the customer's demands.

That's the latest news guys. A part og Belgian history will fall next week, sad, but it's really time to buils something new.

Regards,


FB/BRU
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
baec777
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:09 pm

Did Sabena already started it BRU-DFW route, why cutting it back....??

Baec777 Big grin
 
SN-A330
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 5:19 am

Another try to give an update on the routes that have been cut by Sabena:

• Short and medium haul: Moscou, Sofia, Bucarest, Dublin and Porto.

• Long haul to the US: Dallas, Chicago and the (daily) evening flight to New York.

• Long haul to Canada: Montreal.

• Long haul to Africa: Ouagadougou (Burkina Faso) and Bamako (Mali).

If anyone would have a complete list, that would be very welcome! Thanks for your input.

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 5:30 am

Perhaps DAT will operate SN's BRU-DUB route with RJ's?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
atwingo
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 5:51 am

Is it true that w/DAT they might return to IAD?
regards
 
SR3496
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:16 am

Very sad for those African countries. I've been on one of these flights to Bamako (over Ouaga) and the flight was 100% full. I thought that Sabena made some money on that route.

Now the only connection from Bamako and Ouaga to Europe is with Air France, right?
 
SN-A330
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:56 am

One more try to give you an update on the routes that have been cut by Sabena:

• Short and medium haul: Moscou, Sofia, Bucarest, Dublin, Porto, Milan Linate, Isanbul and most of the daily flights to Frankfurt.

• Long haul to the US: Dallas, Chicago and the (daily) evening flight to New York.

• Long haul to Canada: Montreal.

• Long haul to Africa: Ouagadougou (Burkina Faso) and Bamako (Mali).

and one more: Madras

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 8:24 am

I always though their African long-hauls were huge money makers. Didn't Sabena, at one point, have the largest African network of any European carrier?
a.
 
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American 767
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 8:43 am

That means American might add more flights to Brussels, hopefully a daily roundtrip JFK-BRU and a daily roundtrip DFW-BRU. I doubt we will ever see the 777 (I'm talking about AA) in Brussels. American will very likely stick to the 767 on all three flights to Brussels. Probably a 200 on the daily BRU-JFK, a 300 on the daily BRU-DFW and a 300 on the daily BRU-ORD which has never been dropped since the late 80's when American started flying to Brussels. There may be at anytime an equipment switch, the 767-300 may on each of the flights mentioned above be replaced with a 200 if the load factors aren't high enough. I don't know how profitable the BRU-DFW route will be, a few years ago the route was opened (no codeshare at all) but it was closed after three or four months because it was not profitable, a 767-200 would be large enough in terms of capacity on that route. American may take advantage of all the slots and landing rights left empty by Sabena, now that Sabena is dropping ORD, DFW, and one of the two flights to JFK.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:18 am

How about Miami-Brussels? Much more potential, IMO, than Dallas-Brussels. Less domestic connections but more O&D (mostly from Brussels) and better leisure connections for the busy winter season (though how busy this season will be is yet to be known). Miami lost Brussels service when CityBird ended trans-Atlantic flights, and I remember Sabena had even put MIA-BRU flights in thier system, but they never emerged. I think O'Hare-Brussels would come first, though.
a.
 
Bove
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:34 am

I think a lot of people are deluding themselves that Sabena will turn into DAT like a caterpillar into a butterfly...there are big problems ahead and the unions have remained reamrkably silent about what they are going to do. No airline has ever shrunk itself into profitablity!
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 10:15 am

damn it first we lose VS at ORD now Sabena! WTH is this!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:01 pm

If it's true that the cuts are phase one of a shut down NEXT WEEK, there isn't much to talk about I guess. I agree that no airline has ever shrunk to profit. Flown to it yes.

Very sad to see another historic European airline end up like this.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:39 pm

Of course the flights to the States and elsewhere are being cut. Do you know anyone who would book a flight on Sabena? No. It's teetering on bankruptcy and its fickle unions have scared passengers and travel agents away. If you want to be sure to get to your destination, fly AABS (Any Airline But Sabena).
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Guest

RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 4:13 pm

The only chance DAT had was to stick with its successful niche market - regional European airlines. It seems that the long haul operations are being forced on them by BeCA who want jobs for the senior SN pilots - and it's going to result in the bankruptcy of that company as well.

I'm also fascinated with all these people who still insist - despite plenty of evidence, including EU laws to the contrary - that AA will bail out SN! Hey guys, I have this really great deal for you. You know Brooklyn Bridge? Well, I hear that Mayor Guiliani wants to get rid of it ... Big grin Big grin Big grin

Sabena's a dead dog, and the sooner everyone realises that and moves on the better.
 
Bove
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 5:23 pm

IMHO this idea of shutting down Swissair and Sabena and transferring their "profitable" operations over to Crossair and DAT respectively will not get very far off the ground, particularly for Sabena as it is cash starved and cut off from any future line of credit either from private banks or the EU (unless Belgium decides to subvert Palacio and co. which is highly unlikely).

Looks like a fistfight looming as BeCA are sure to demand DAT and Schreiner drivers kicked out to make way for the Airbus drivers. They insist they will do nothing of the sort but are staying remarkably quiet lately.

On the BeCA website there is a gushing article about how Belgium is the cornerstone of the EU and how Belgians consider themselves the quintessential Europeans...I bet the BeCA pilots will have a change of heart in the not too distant future.
 
flyyul
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:04 pm

Nevertheless,

BRU was becoming an airport hub by providing some huge pax growth numbers.

I think its vital for a Belgian carrier to have overseas flight, especially for BRU which is head of the EU and Nato...

The cut routes:
Dallas - world's 5-6th largest airport
Chicago - 2nd busiest airport
Montreal - world 2nd largest french speaking city, and home to many international organizations that have ties with organizations in BRU..

In 1999, Sabena stated that they were extremely happy with the Montreal route, and since then made it daily in the summer, with almost virtually full loads all the time.

I think its imperative that someone else than TS or 2T pick up this route, and pick up Dallas and Chicago route

Mark
 
Billy
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:14 pm

I notice from the SN schedule for winter (see their booking engine) that EDI and LCY no longer feature. Frequency has been cut to all UK points eg MAN from 5 to three, LBA, NCL, BRS, BHX down to 2).
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:23 pm

I can add Valencia, Edimburgh & Naples to the "victims list" of Sabena routes. Those last three were almost all operated by DAT. Valencia & Naples were all the time overbooked flights (Always RJ100 operated). This shows how SN managers are lying when they say they cut routes were booking is too low !!!
The total of discontinued routes is 25 (out of 99 I think). Sabena says they can reroute pax with tickets on those flights but they don't say that many operators DO NOT accept any SN-issued tickets anymore. I know from a friend of mine that Iberia is not allowed to accept SN tickets.

FB-BRU

Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:27 pm

... And they don't even give a word about all this on their website: a shame ...!!!!!!!!!

FB
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
sab12
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:29 pm

Bove,

Since new operations will be focused at DAT and as mentioned above that there is not much cash, there will be NO retraining since there is no money and it is not legal since we have a different contract with different companys.
DAT will only take pilots for the aircraft that come to DAT.The Beca knows that and I think that no other sollution is possible, they are indeed sillent but I hope everybody uses their common sense
 
Guest

RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 7:29 pm

Sab12 - since when has BeCA ever used their common sense? Very best wishes - and good luck - to you all at DAT.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Sabena Cuts More US Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:41 pm

SAB 12, Ceilidh, we don't care about your stupid disputes about Beca and other silly stuff. Go somewhere else for your stupid debate. This topic is something serious.

Thanks in advance.

FB
Life is great at 41.000 feet...