United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8818
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Mon Nov 05, 2001 4:05 pm

In the past, I have heard that Lufthansa is interested in taking a stake in Ansett Australia. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, did you submit their bid? If not, will they?
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Mon Nov 05, 2001 5:08 pm

I would rather see LH bidding for SN!

Who needs an Australian partner airline with a hub at SYD, when LH doesn't even fly to Australia? LH used to fly to SYD, first with 747, later with 763, but even that was too large equipment. Traffic from Germany to Australia doesn't seem to be that much. Buying SN and creating a third middle-european hub (after FRA and MUC) seems more sensible to me. Anyways, thinking about the current situation, I don't think LH will buy either Ansett nore Sabena.
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm


Mon Nov 05, 2001 7:45 pm

Good morning!
Where did you two read about Ansett and/or Sabena??
Sabena is highly unlikely, as Bruxelles is definitely not the place where LH would create a third hub, simply because it is not in Germany: No I am not trying to be nationalistic, but it there are several reasons:
1. It is a question of international aviation law, LH would not be protected by Belgian government authorities.
2. True, Sabena would be cheap to buy, probably not more than one symbolic Euro, but the real price would be existing debt and the cash needs of Sabena. That is a problem for LH, too currently, and German government has said on Sunday that it will not help to cover terrorist incident insurance in the long run, meaning the next fare increases are due before Christmas (just what we needed, goddammit)
3. Sabena is not and never was part of Star Alliance and as far as I know, never tried to be, so there would be no reason for LH to be Sabena's "white knight".
4. What other assets of Sabena wouzld be of interest for LH? None, at least none that I can think of.

Ansett: True, LH does not fly to Australia. There is no need, you can go there by Star Alliance companies. That has been LH's strategy since years: Code-sharing with partner carriers, not competition to the end (and it pays!!!), thereby leaving any vanities behind (as a "good" airline you have to go everywhere around the world: Sounds good, but Bullshit all the way).
Yet it is not impossible to bid for Ansett, (though certainly not alone) in order to help Ansett go on.
The reason would be to secure Star Alliance's grip on the pacific rim, if it is deemed necessary. LH has done that a few times (remember Air Canada's fight for Canadian Airlines, hostile takeover bids, by AA, if I remember correctly).
But remember: to buy shares in another carrier not coming from a German-speaking region (which is regarded by LH as its domestic market, remember Lauda, Austrian, Eurowings)is basically not LH's strategy, they prefer to go for alliances, and were much happier with that strategy in the 90s.


PS: If you have any official sources, please let me know a.s.a.p. Thanks!
PPS: Ndebele: When did LH fly the 767-300? I only remember Condor flying that aircraft.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:26 pm

RE: Lufthansa-Ansett-Sabena

Mon Nov 05, 2001 7:51 pm

Hi Andreas,

LH replaced the 747 with extra repainted B767-330ER registered D-ABUC on the route FRA-BKK-SYD from March 1994 until (I think) October 1994. After that services from Germany to Australia were stopped and passengers were booked on code-sharing flights of Thai International and United Airlines.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner

Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

Dennis: Thanks A Lot!

Mon Nov 05, 2001 8:24 pm

Much appreciated!
The picture was obviously taken in Frankfurt Rhein-Main with the aircraft coming out of the B-Terminal Bay.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Mon Nov 05, 2001 10:43 pm

Andreas, I never said LH would be interested in SN. All I said was, that I *personally* would prefer to see LH buying SN instead of AN. SN seems more sensible to *me*. Because SN is the best airline ever, *imho* of course.

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Mon Nov 05, 2001 10:55 pm

LH now flies codeshare flights with SQ to OZ/NZ

When I last flew Sq SINAKL it was a codeshared SQ/NZ/LH flight

Home PERSIN it was codeshared SQANLH

God only knows why LH subjects their pax to the SQ substandard service (IMHO)?
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

KRP And Ndebele

Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:02 am

KRP: Are you sure you actually mean Singapore Airlines by SQ??? Must be, as SQ is short for SingAir. Substandard service???? What did they do to you? You must be the only person in this Universe that puts SingAir's service below that of LH *LLLoooLLL*
Cool, why not, just please please please tell me, why!?!

Ndebele: I did not imply you want LH to take over Sabena (who in his right mind would want to do that), I just wanted to point out, that it is not that easy to create a new hub in Belgium for the German Flag Carrier.
btw: How is the weather in Stuttgart? (My parents live close to the airport)

Best wishes!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Tue Nov 06, 2001 1:15 am

about official sources regarding rumours that LH might be interested in AN, i´ve come across several news magazine articles on the net which indicated that LH might be among the parties interested in AN.
however, that is some days ago and i don´t have the links anymore, but i came across these via the airliners-net news section.

and by the way, about two months ago i also read a small article which indicated that LH could be possibly interested in SN. again, that´s quite some time ago and things have changed significantly (SR going down) since then.
i do agree that wouldn´t seem to make such sense, especially in such difficult times.

If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 6:21 am

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Tue Nov 06, 2001 1:27 am

Before code sharing with SQ on the Aussie Route they were booking apssengers on NG ( Lauda).
I flew several times on their 767's with a full LH ticket from Vienna first through Singapore and then through Kuala Lumpur, this before they started serving the route with the 777.


RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Tue Nov 06, 2001 6:37 am

Yes I am fully aware that SQ means Singapore Airlines.
I had the distinct misfortune of flying them FRA Sin AKl and PER Sin FRA.
Being Scandinavian yourself you kmost likely know PremitiveAir (DK) - well they are miles better that SQ which says alot as Dk are the lowest of the lowest in the scandinavian market.
Anyway: SQ to me equates: misserable crew who litteraly throw food at you - officially you have a choice, but three rows along there service they "unfortunately only have the chicken left! (I dont mind chicken - but dont try to pretend there is a choise when there is none!) No choice of beer - one brand only. Scruffy looking stewards - female crew who obvoiusly were there for looks and nothing else - those dresses must be a hazard in a emergency! The planes were filthy inside and out (except a new 777 from Per) Caothic boarding at both FRa and SIN, no legroom due to the dammed PTV - that did not workson most channels and showed B-film on the ones that did.
Toilets that went US after 5 hours flight on a FULL flight from SIN to FRA. I felt sooooooo sorry for the pax that had to continue on that plane to NYC

Sorry Andreas but after 4 horrible flights I can only say NEVER EVER SQ AGAIN! I´d rather walk!
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 3:58 pm

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Tue Nov 06, 2001 8:57 am


I suggest that you are quite an isolated case. Certainly in Y, there is no comparison between LH and SQ - anyone who thinks LH has good legroom in Y obviously has very short legs.

Your statement, " Scruffy looking stewards - female crew who obvoiusly were there for looks" is a bit odd? The crew are good looking ("for the looks") but looke "scruffy"?

SQ may not be perfect, but LH is hardly better.


The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:26 am


Please qualify your statement that traffic from Germany to Australia isn't much.

QF -

4 x weekly SYD-FRA
3 x weekly MEL-FRA

which constitutes daily Australia-Germany direct service
(stopovers are in BKK or SIN).


The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

To KRP: Thank You!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 1:07 am

Sorry to hear that, it is just so that it doesn't sound like their usual self. I flew SQ on Inner-Asian services; it was ok, lovely girls but nothing unusual. I like their new Business Class(well not so new anymore), nice colours, but in the end I prefer a flight to be on time, it beats good service anytime. To judge SQ's punctuality, I am not qualified, but I didn't hear anything negative.

Your posting shows quite effectively, that any opinions on the good service of a Company should be read as opinions, nothing more. This goes to all the guys from the thread covering LH's service and the friendliness of their pilots.

Thanks for telling me!

btw: I am not Scandinavian, but German! Unfortunately I have never heard about PremitiveAir, but it sure sound great!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Is Lufthansa Bidding For Ansett Australia?

Wed Nov 07, 2001 2:03 am

I guess LH doesn't care so much about what is going on "down under" now but they will probably take a closer look on europe now. As it has predicted many years ago that europe will be left with 3 big ones (LH, AF and BA) and now is the time where the 3 can take their picks since those are the ones that can survive longest since they have the cash... Unless they take SR as an example...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos