CV990
Topic Author
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TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:30 pm


Hi!

When we see great and strong airlines breaking apart, examples like SABENA and SWISSAIR it's good to see some also classic airlines with a good name in the market getting stronger, yesterday the CEO of TAP said that untill now TAP had a profit of more than 8 million USD, the effects of the 11 September over TAP where noone and the airline is growing healthy now.
Also TAP didn't had to lay off any employers untill now and most of the flights are quite full, the USA market for example TAP is winning against Continental, so that's good news for our small but a very honest a live airline. Just to end here goes the fleet now:

16 A319-100
6 A320-200
2 A321-200
5 A310-300
4 A340-300

Next moove will be the complete replacement of the A310-300 and perhaps also the A340-300 for a more convenient A330-200, where're talking about 10 new airplanes for the medium/long haul market!
regards and fly TAP!!!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
airblue
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:42 pm

That's a good news!!!
 
CV990
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:51 pm


Hi Airblue!

Infact that's very good news, I think TAP is doing the best possible strategy, and that is, fly to the places where it can be profit with good market niches, I'm talking about Africa ( mainly ex: portuguese colonies - Angola, Mozambique, Guine-Bissau, Cape Verde Islands, Sao Tome ) and Brazil ( here TAP have at least 3 or 4 destinations ). Then it flies most of european capitals and finnally USA, so what more can we need? That's it!
TAP have also an extremely young fleet, average 5 years old and all Airbus, no mixed fleets and mixed spares or simulators or mixed type certifications.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
airblue
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:57 pm

How is the relation between TAP and Portugalia??

Strong competition or code-sharing and others agreement??
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Tue Nov 06, 2001 10:42 pm

As far as I know competition. Code-share agreements would give them a dominant market share in Portugal, one thing which is prohibited by the anti-cartell office of the European Commission. Anyway, nice to hear that one carrier isn´t struggling too much at the moment!

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Gdabski
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:01 am

Nice to hear that there is a Qualiflyer airline which is still making good business  Smile
Gdabski
 
hkg_clk
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:12 am

I saw their 340s in Macau once. Any plans for them to return?
See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
 
CV990
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 1:42 am


Hi!

Noop, I think TAP will never try again the asian market, that was a truly failure in TAP strategy, TAP was never known in Asia so why do it when you have great airlines in asian tradition? I think TAP flew to Macau as a political issue not a comercial one, it was more or less like LAX in late 80's, TAP also opened a flight from LIS to LAX with L1011-500 and after a few months it dropped too, there's no way TAP could make business in that route too.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
johnnie
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 4:32 am

HELLO JOSE!!! It's Johnnie Rotten here. We had chatted about your year sabbatical in Canada. Hope all is well with you! And GOOD for TAP! It's nice to hear some POSITIVE news in this industry for a change.

Take Care, my Portugese Flying Amigo!
Johnnie
 
DETA737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:39 am

I'm glad to hear that TAP is doing so well. I always had faith in the abilities of TAP's Brazilian CEO Fernando Pinto, after all he had helped make Varig profitable. The only issue now is which alliance TAP will join. I think the best contenders are Star and Skyteam. TAP's needs an alliance that can provide it with feeder service in Brazil and the United States and Canada. Star has Varig to connect to smaller Brazilian cities, but United is based out of Chicago so they can't really feed TAP's flights out of JFK and EWR very well. However, at Skyteam TAP has Delta which is a much better North American partner and is in much better financial shape. There's also the option of Oneworld but they already have Iberia so I think they're an unlikely choice, although TAP already codeshares with American Airlines. In the short term TAP needs to make their service world class, they could learn from other small airlines like Finnair and Austrian Airlines. All in all I think they'll survive and I can't wait to see A330s in TAP livery (hopefully a new one).
 
CV990
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:45 am


Hi!

I think that issue ( well until now ) hasn't been talked a lot in the late days, I'm not sure that TAP after the experience with Swissair and the Qualifyer group will like to move faster to another group, maybe latter but not now. Until now the 5 groups that want to go forward the privatisation are all portuguese, A ir France also expressed interest in TAP, but TAP will go really step by step the best direction in the comming times, we'll wait to see the next moves!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
DETA737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:51 am

Hey CV990

I'm just curious which are the Portuguese groups that are interested in TAP, I keep on trying to find news on TAP from Expresso, RTP and other Portuguese news sources but it's hard to find anything. Would any of the major family led industrial grupos like the Champalimaud, Espirito Santos, Mellos or any of the others be interested in taking a stake? Or perhaps the guy from Sonae last time I heard he was the richest man in Portugal and worth billions of $$$ so he could easily afford a stake in TAP.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:08 am

Over 8 million USD profit!!! That's a lot of money in one single wallet.

But on the accounts of an airline company they are hard to see. One serious bird strike into one A310 engine, and the money is gone.

Try to measure those 8 million against the hole left behind by Sabena. No, you won't see them at the bottom. If Sabena had that profit PER DAY over the next year, then they could pay their bills and the downpayments on a few new planes.

Anyway, to have a profit while almost all competitors operate with dramatic losses, that's great. Even the slightest profit at least means no loss.

Ragards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
MAH4546
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:59 am

TAP needs to open up more trans-Atlantic routes. Miami and Chicago, maybe reopen Boston, and drop Newark.
a.
 
JR737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 10:21 am

I am pilot on TAP Air Portugal, I fly A310-300 and as well as I know, there is no discussion on new widebody fleet.
In my opinion, the best choice would be the B767 family. I think it is not so important the cross crew qualification, because an airline exists to transport people and cargo. The A330-200, is in my view too great for certain flights operated by the A310. I think a great mistake was done by Airbus in not launching the A330-500. So presently the most flexible plane for 200-260 pax market is the B767-200,300 and 400.
That would be a better choice in spite of A340 and A310.

Joao Roque
 
DETA737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:19 pm

I know TAP had 5 A330-200s on the books a while back but I'm not sure if they still have them on order, apparently they were to be leased through ILFC. Anyway their 5 A310-300s aren't very old planes anyway the oldest being from 1988. Replacing them with 767s would make no sense. US Airlines keep some of their aircraft up to 30 years or more just look at Northwest with their DC-9s and DC-10s, so I don't see the rush to start phasing out aircraft just because they're over 10 years old.
 
CV990
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:14 pm


Hi!

The sources that I got from the new long-haul fleet where given by a TAP pilot too, and he said that the option would be for an Airbus, buy a Boeing at this time would be a completely non-sense with an all Airbus fleet, it reminds me when TAP had a all Boeing fleet had suddenly TAP bought the L1011-500, at that time there was already the 767 and that was one of the reasons that TAP came almost to the pitts, new aircraft new engines, new spares. I hope that TAP will not make the same mistake twice, even if the A330-200 have a more capacity than the A310, it as less than the A340-300 and it will save much more money if we use a 2 engine aircraft instead of a 4 engines one.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Guest

RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:42 pm

Hi everybody!
I guess the A330 order ended with the end of the Swissair deal...
CEO Fernando Pinto said that TAP renewed the A310-300 leasing contracts until 2005 and that TAP will refurbish all A310-300 interiors to meet the airline quality standards in the other fleets.
So I guess the A310 are here to stay, and probabily they will be a kind of B707 that operated for TAP more than 20 years of good service.
For me the A330-200 is no solution to replace the old (?) A310-300. If TAP wanted new aircraft, for me the best solution would be ordering new A310 (!!) as they are still in production. It makes more sense than buying B767 (a same generation aircraft). I travelled alot in TAP's A310 and I like it as I liked the good old TriStar 500s.

Also I don't think TAP is preparing to replace their A340. All 4 A340 are property of the airline. Probabily it was not such a good choice, but a four engined aircraft is always a flagship!

best regards/ abraços
 
BestWestern
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:30 pm

Wake up and smell the coffee TAP.

I hate to bring bad news, but I think that you guys are falling for some PR hype.

A quick look at the September Association of European Airlines statistics shows that TAP had the second largest load factor fall in the month, at -11.6%. (Aer Lingus had the worst load factor fall but since then have seriously cut capacity and made loads of people redundant - to save the airline)

The fact that they havent reduced capacity could bankrupt the carrier. Why does TAP think that they are immune to a global slow down? They are not.

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
CV990
Topic Author
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:22 pm

Hi Bestwestern!

Infact by your words some hidden things might be disturbing you. Please tell why TAP shouldn't have profit now? Please also tell me why we the portuguese shouldn't be sucessfull in putting our airline over the edges? That's a non-sense what you're saying, and I'll bet with you that TAP will be in the business for many years or "hell freezes over"!!! You should look better to your country and see how air transportation is going, look to BA and the way they're cutting jobs, airplane orders, routes and all that!!!! TAP until now haven't cut ANY route and didn't layed-off ANY employer! That's like we say in my country - " More high you go bigger is the crash! " - let's hope that in a near future we will not see other bigger airlines falling apart, TAP is small so it can better handle their problems, about the 8 Million USD profit how can you explain that when you say TAP had the 2nd. higgest traffic fall of the month? I would like to have some answers for that please!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
CV990
Topic Author
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:56 am


Hi!

I just went to BBC webpage and it's interesting to see what is happening to european airlines, now I can understand why some people are really envy about TAP profits, take a look:

SK - 800/1.100 jobs cut
BA - 7.000 jobs cut & 190 flights a week cancelled
AF - Cutting schedules too!!!
KL - 2.500 jobs cut too!
LH - Postponed 19 aircraft deliveries
AZ - 2.500 jobs cut, planes jeopardized too!

In the other way, TAP is FLYING HIGH!!! Amen for that!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
9V-SPK
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 3:14 am

TAP - A Hot Prospect in the future hehe?
Missed their A340s to Macau actually!Way to go!

Best Regards
 
DETA737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 3:39 am

I'm curious if TAP has any plans to fly to Eastern Europe any time soon, possibly to Moldova, Romania or Ukraine. Only because of all of the Eastern European immigrants from these countries that have been flooding into Portugal including something like 50,000 Ukrainians in the first half of this year. I'm not sure how wise it would be just because of lack of business class passangers but maybe it's a prospect for the future.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:27 am

More and more, it seems we are learning that bigger is not better in the airline industry... the good news from TAP/Air Portugal lends further evidence.
 
CV990
Topic Author
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:10 pm


Hi DETA737.

Although there are many thousands of ucranians/russians etc. etc TAP is not flying to those places and I think because like I said about other regions TAP never had a tradition of flying there, I think it will be quite exoensive to have a commercial platform in those weak countries, I've noted that normally ( until Swissair was on the business!!! ) these people would fly with Swissair - FAO or LIS/ZRH/KIEV, also KLM would do that flight FAO or LIS/AMS/KIEV.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
DETA737
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:36 pm

Just to add to CV990's information. I read some more info on TAP, earlier this month it was announced that 5 Portuguese economic groups (for those of you not familiar with the Portuguese economy there are about half a dozen families who control huge economic groups that have interests in every sector of the economy) are bidding for a 39% stake in the airline in it's first wave of privatisation. It looks like TAP is doing better than I thought they made a profit in June, July, August and September. In the month of September traffic was down 15% however, but that's better than the average of the AEA (Association of European airlines which is 19.8%. The biggest loss is on flights to the United States where traffic is down 40% so TAP has reduced it's flights from 10 weekly to 8 weekly. I personally think they should drop EWR since they already serve JFK. Apparently the flights to Brazil and Africa are still doing well though.
 
CV990
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:11 pm


Hi!

Another hot information regarding TAP. At this time TAP is also leasing an ex: YES AIR A320, CS-TNB is again flying with TAP colours for a while, also TAP will receive their 3rd. A321 during the begging of 2002, CS-TJG will be the registration, I'm sure CS-TNB will be now in TAP until the new A321 arrived.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
erj190
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:30 am

The fact that Air Portugal is showing profits during September is in fact remarkabe.

Nevertheless the company still has a very large debt, and seems that up to the end of 2001 it will still show a loss of around EUR 50 million. The total added losses are far higher.

The eventual success of Air Portugal should nevertheless be followed by the aviation industry, because should the company be able to live, without the help of state funding, it probably is a proof that European flag carriers don't need to start merging.

It would be a proof that "scale economy" has it's limits, and that it is possible for a small carrier, (flag carrier or not) can survive in the future.

That would be bad news for Mrs. DePalacio (European minister for the transportation) which seems to be favourable to just aglomerating carriers with each other.


PS:

With the launch of the new ERJ-170 will Portugalia consider it as a replacement of their fokker-100?

considering that Portugalia already uses the ERJ-145 ?

 
CV990
Topic Author
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:44 am


Hi!

About Portugalia and their fleet infact the ERJ170 could be a great replacer for the Fokker 100 although they are quite happy with the plane, maybe it's agood choise, also don't forget that Portugalia also uses the Beech 1900 in Portugalia Express.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:54 pm

Portugalia said "if" they replace their fleet it will be the whole fleet as they won´t be able to operate more than two types alongside. This could be the ERJ-170, the CRJ200/700/900 or the 528/728/928JET.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
CV990
Topic Author
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Mon Nov 12, 2001 12:39 am


Hi!

I'll agree with Portugalia if they replace the Fokker 100 by the ERJ-170, they have already the ERJ-145 and I presume they will be a cross checked between both types, that could be a neat solution for them, I know that Portugalia is quite happy with the options they did in terms of airliners but in the other way I've been seen them quite concern about the Fokker fall a few years ago, now passing from the Fokker/Embraer to Canadair or Dornier I don't think that will be possible.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Ezra
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RE: TAP/Air Portugal Is Flying High!

Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:27 am


TAP will probably never drop Newark, as that route serve a very large Portugese community in the Northern New Jersey area.

Rgds.

Ezra.