VS744
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Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:56 am

Did anyone in the UK see the documentary in c4 at 8.30 pm?

I can't believe the chain of events that led to that, AND that there are still 100 747's flying around that havent had the safety modification.

chain of events:
Low fuel in centre tank
heat from air con
oxygen sucked out thru vent on ascent
wires short fusing causing increase of voltage to fuel tank
build up of carbon deposits led to spark which ignited fuel vapour!!
 
777236ER
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:00 am

Oh god, this is gonna turn into a big debate. There's quite a lot of evidence that says that the spark COULDN'T have caused the CFTE.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:04 am

Have you seen the state of the wires that pass the main fuel tanks on aircraft as modern as the 767-300? It's scary!! All the wires are just bunched together, a short was bound to happen on these older birds (747-100/200, DC-10, L10-11,767-200/300) According to reports it was faulty wiring that brought that SR MD-11 down a couple of years back.It was partly due to the type of coating on the wires which caused the fire, the same coating as found in the A340, 744 etc worrying isn't it!  Sad
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
johnnie
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:05 am

There is also strong evidence that the forward portion of the fuselage (just fwd of doors 2L/2R) separated from TW880 B E F O R E the ignition of the central fuel tank. Hmmmm, a debate this shall be indeed!
 
johnnie
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:08 am

Something tells me the only people who will TRULY know the reason why TWA800 exploded are the passengers and crew of that flight, and "God".

May they all rest in peace.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:10 am

Saw the documentary, very interesting and I don't believe the conspiracy theories. The CGI animations were a bit graphic but they got the facts right which is all that matters.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:27 am

Very interesting!
 
airmale
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:03 am

Considering the TWA incident was the only such case since the 747 came into existence makes me seriously doubt the fuel tank story.

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Guest

RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:08 am

Airmale: It wasn't the first. There was an incident where a 747's fuel tank exploded over Spain. A 737 also suffered a tank explosion in the Philippines prior to the TWA incident.
 
VirginA340
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:00 am

There are 18 incidents of fuel tank explosions in all including an MD-88 in the Phillipines and a Thai 737-400. The FAA questioned the issue in the 70s but put it on the bacburner after they bent backwards over airline and manufacture bottom line. This is a habit of them.
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:23 am

Hey guys,

Those forward cargo doors are a 'real' problem on some aircraft.

Remember Turkish Air DC-10?

Cheers,

mb
 
seagull
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:36 am

Interestingly, nobody who is actually close to the investigation, the NTSB team members nor the ALPA team members, believe in any of the conspiracy theories and all are confident that they found the answer in the published findings.
 
L-1011-500
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:06 am

I personally think it is a missile. If it was really this center-fuel tank explosion, why haven't more planes fallen out of the sky? I think the center-fuel tank explosion theory was a cover-up for two things: possible government involvement, and the NTSB/FAA's inabiility to find out a true cause.

Also, here is an interesting theory: http://www.corazon.com
 
airplay
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 12:27 pm

I think the overall safety record of the 747 speaks volumes. We should all be so lucky to own a specific car model that we can run for 30 years for millions of miles just below mach 1 before a single (or one or two) catastrophic event involving the fuel tank occurs.

 
VirginA340
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 3:12 pm

It looks like Ichan wasn't the killer of the airline but rather TWA's shoddy maintinance. Too bad they didn't repace the old and out dated gas guzzling 747s with more fuel efficient 757/767 aircraft soo enough otherwise they'd be the size of CO out of JFK.
"FUIMUS"
 
VS744
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:47 pm

From what I saw last night, it showed the actual aircraft had a 75ft section rebuilt from the million pieces of debris they recovered from the sea bed.

The evidence showed that there had definately been an explosion in the fuel tank, as the main supports had damage as a result of a support beam being thrust forward in the impact.

They couldnt itentify the reason why such an explosion would occur, and carried out tests on Jet A (Kerosene) to see how they could make it ignite. They discovered that ignition was possible when oxygen was starved. The 747 has wing vents which draw out the air as the atmospheric pressure changes on ascent.
In order for the fuel to produce vapour, it would need to be very hot, and because a passenger was late, and the ground temperature was extreme, they had an a/c full of passengers in sweltering conditions.

The air con was switched on (and is located directly beneath the centre fuel tank) which led to the heating of the fuel. Because the tank is designed to absorb heat, this should have been safe. However, there was only 50 gallons of fuel in this tank, which therefore led to it heating rapidly and producing the vapour required to be combustable.

Further to this, the voice recorder identified the pilot commenting on a fuel guage which was showing bizzare readings.

The reason this occured because the normally low voltage wiring to the fuel flow indicator in the tank had been short circuited because the loom was damaged, causing greater voltage in the fuel wires.

Finally, the design of the contacts is such that does not permit a spark, however, they did not realise that carbon deposits built up when fuel and voltage came into contact, thus causing a spark.

The forward section of the a/c split off after the support beams were forced in the explosion, and the fusilage ripped 360 degrees from the front of the wings.

This plummeted to the ground, whilst the rear section headed high into the sky until it stalled, inverted and plummeted towards the sea at 400mph - causing the wing tips to break, fuel ignite, and turn into a fireball.

This would have been a very frightening death for the people on board.

They said that older 747's (25 years+) still flying which hadnt had wiring modifications where still a risk. There are 100 such a/c still in use.

Hope this is a good detailed decription of what happened!
 
sudden
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:09 pm

I saw that documentary couple of years ago. I found it very interesting, and heartbreaking to watch.
The fact that the fuselage broke up in 2 pieces and passangers still were alive (alot of them) and knowing that there was no way out of it.
If my memory serves me correct, they talked to a man in the documentary that had seen a light (missile).
But they said, what he saw was the explosion it self.
The truth about what really happend that day have been on my mind for a very long time.

There is a 13 minutes long audiofile at Airdisaster.com from T/O to the end between Tower and TWA800 Heavy.
Also audiofiles between tower and other pilots who saw it happend.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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sebolino
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:21 pm

What's interesting is the numerous witnesses all saying it was a missile.
 
VS744
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:26 pm

I doubt that theory about a missile.

I thought it happened over the sea?

maybe someone had too much sea air!
 
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sebolino
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:31 pm

Over the sea, very close to New York
 
VC-10
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:15 pm

All the wires are just bunched together, a short was bound to happen on these older birds (747-100/200, DC-10, L10-11,767-200/300) - err, there was aviation before the 1970's, what about all the 707's & DC8's that DIDN'T explode
 
Guest

RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:30 pm

Mx5_boy said: Those forward cargo doors are a 'real' problem on some aircraft.

Remember Turkish Air DC-10?


Actually, that was the aft door ... and was the subject of an AD in 1973 which THY ignored!
 
F27
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:50 pm

That is a load of rubbish what they say about TWA 800.The fumes that are inside those tanks there is no oxygen to cause the fire it is a cover up bye the USA Authorities.I have been inside enought tanks on boeing aircraft to know
 
VS744
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:58 pm

F27 - You must have seen that there are breather outlets which stretch to the wing then?

The fact that the tanks are starved of oxygen also helps JET-A ignite. Jet-A vapour cannot ignite in normal conditions, but when starved of oxygen - which happened when the a/c was climbing, the vapur becomes more combustable and therefore can ignite. Scientific research backs this up.
 
GDB
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Fri Nov 09, 2001 1:07 am

It was a good, sober programme. not shown before.
But it confirms what has long been suspected.
Sorry to tell all you conspiracy nuts, but the NTSB are certain about this as the cause. The implications are being studied by airlines and manufacturers alike.
In two years time, the recovered 747 will be the centre-piece of an international crash-investigation training school being set up in Washington.
So the wreck is not hidden away in Area 51, go figure.
It may have been a freak series of events, but so was the Concorde crash last year.
How many 747-100's are flying around unmodified?
 
BA777
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Fri Nov 09, 2001 1:35 am

i have one thing to say about this that was the first word that came into my head, but sorry, im not allowed to say it in these forums  Wink/being sarcastic

It was a time bomb that noone knew about :-(

BA777  Wink/being sarcastic
 
VS744
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RE: Real Reason Why TWA800 Exploded

Fri Nov 09, 2001 1:59 am

How many 747-100's are flying around unmodified?
They said 100.

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