ben88
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 4:49 pm

Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:07 pm

Which airlines do you guys believe are currently the strongest economically speaking? We keep talking about airlines falling left and right like flies, but which airlines are in absolutely no immediate danger of bankruptcy? I'll start the list with some of my own suggestions:

Air France
Southwest
Qantas
JAL
Delta
 
DC-10inLB
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2000 5:48 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:10 pm

SKYWEST AIRLINES!
 
EGFF
Posts: 2082
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:17 pm

well, not so much airlines but low cost, they are calling major profits!

Easyjet
Go
Ryanair
All together or not at all
 
ben88
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 4:49 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:19 pm

I wasn't implying major airlines only. Thanks for your input!
 
flyinghighboy
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:06 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:19 pm

Virgin Blue?
Emirates?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4928
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:33 pm

Singapore Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Air New Zealand (for now?)
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:45 pm

I'd go with THAI. They're increasing their schedules to the destinations other airlines are cutting.

Good for them!  Smile
-
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:12 pm

Definitely Qantas. Virgin Blue is in a reasonable position as well. Qantas is arguably the most financially safe airline in the world at the moment due to its domestic 'monopoly', though that might change.

Emirates may be ok, it depends on whether this 'war' goes spreads.

Cathay Pacific may be ok, if it trims its North American schedules as it has done, it has a reasonably healthy balance sheet, no immediate danger.

SQ similar.

How's SAA doing? They should be weathering ok, I should think.

ANA and JAL? Though I think their exposure to the US market is pretty high.

The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:23 pm

Air France:
They have just released their quaterly results. Despite September 11, those results are better than last year. And last year results were very good.
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:44 pm

Singapore Airlines obviously.Qantas, SAS, Emirates...obviously Saudi Arabian.
Dragonair...strong financial situation.
Most government owned airlines are also strong i should say.

Best Regards
 
2cn
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:54 pm

For US airlines, I'd say the strongest two major airlines are Delta and South West... Delta has a large cash posistion, larger I believe then the other majors... and had they actually counted the 400 million or so they got from the Goverment in the third quater, they would have turned a good sized profit.. instead, they are including it in 4th quarter reports.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:59 pm

On the issue of European airlines, can I just throw a thought in...

Air France and Lufthansa are both strong, but have no meaningful competition in their home markets. Compare them:

France: Air Lib - a basket case carrier with a slim chance of survival

Germany: Deutsche BA - a struggling carrier who, when they go head to head with LH are ruthlessly squashed

Britain: Ryanair, Buzz, Go, Easyjet, British Midland, Virgin Atlantic, British European, ScotAirways and others

To those who think LH/AF are secure right now, the low cost threat is coming. Be afraid...
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MD
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:54 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:13 pm

9V-SPK->

SAS not be good financial situation. They were very bad financial situation.

Finnair have very good financial situation.

 Big grin Big grin Big grin

///
 
Scand_Flyer
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:33 pm

SAS is reducing capacity and because of that also reducing it's staff, but that is because they are adapting to the new situation so that they can continue to be profitable. SAS is still solid.
 
Guest

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:38 pm

The strongest airlines in the World is:

1. Cathay Pacific
2. JAL
3. Quantas
4. Singapore Airlines
5. British Airways, Air France and Delta
 
MD
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:54 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 9:07 pm

Scand Flyer->

This is only rumor:

SAS finnish theirs bussines class and stops serve meals on short haul flight.

SAS is still solid. -> I don't think so.

///
 
dash8tech
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 1999 8:40 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Fri Nov 09, 2001 9:08 pm

Alaska
 
sccutler
Posts: 5582
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 12:23 am

For core financial strength (which includes not only cash position, but prospects for continued operational profitability), you'd have to say Southwest. Their history and operational efficiency have shown that they know how to operate profitably in bad times, and they have the ability to make money when no other carrier can do so.

Qantas are also (for reasons cited above) in a birds nest on the ground, so to speak, with a protected market and overwhelming dominance.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
vtual
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:45 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 12:48 am

The CEO of Ryanair said recently that in a few years, in europe, they will just be 3 or 4 "real" airlines (in my opinion Air France, Lufthansa and others), and the rest will be occupied by low-fare airlines...

Vincent
 
nwa757300
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 12:18 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 4:50 am

NORTHWEST!! They have as much cash on hand as AA, and DL and they're half their size. They did make a profit in the 3rd quarter, and they are taking delivery of over 40 aircraft next year including 757-300s, 747-400s, 319/320s, and CRJ-440s.
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:22 am

SABENA - just Smile

I think that SIA(Singapore Airlines) is constantly increasing and buying new aircrafts every year. I think that someday it will be as big as UA(if they don't collapse).
BTW: how much was the biggest profit of AA or UA in the history and which airline makes the biggest profits?

tanks
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:30 am

VLM, a small but very profitable airline based in Antwerp.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
wadha
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 7:22 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 6:04 am

Emirates,
British
KLM
Lufthansa i guess
 
User avatar
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 5:20 am

Weakest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 6:49 am

AIR CANADA ---> Weakest, Feeble, and also has Ostioperosis. And needs more Calcium, Vitamins A,C,D and Carbohydrates.. Big grin



Strongest is.. Emirates. IMHO Quatar airways is also good too.
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
kdonohue
Posts: 401
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:26 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:04 am

WestJet. Only profitable airline Canada. Mind you, there aren't many airlines left in Canada.

Ken
 
bombayhog
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 11:34 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:13 am

Continental is strong.

I wouldn't say British is all that strong. They are in some danger as well.

/gwl
 
Guest

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:28 am

The strongest airlines in my opinion are:

1)KLM
2)Northwest
3)JAL
4)ANA
5)QANTAS
6)Air France
7)Air Canada
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:41 am

jetBlue, Southwest, American, Continental, Delta in the US

LanChile in Latin America

South African Airways in Africa

El Al, Emirates in the Middle East

Air France, Lufthansa in Europe

Singapore, Qantas in Asia/Oceania.
a.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sat Nov 10, 2001 1:37 pm

JetBlue, Southwest, Alaska, AirTran and Continental seem to be righting themselves, as is WestJet in Canada. Continental is closer to breakeven than any of the other majors except Southwest. Everyone was down on them because they had no planes left to mortgage, but they have the strongest loads domestically, and a very efficient, rationalized fleet. In Europe, Ryanair and Easyjet say their business is up; beyond that, I'd be hard-pressed to name a winner. In Asia, I can't name anyone who's positioned for survival.
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

Unfair Question! Read The Following:

Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:43 pm

The question or rather the comparison of all Airlines worldwide is rather unfair: You just cannot compare low-cost carrier like Ryan, Easy etc., that cover niche markets, to fully-grown network carrier like LH, AF or BA. Several reasons:
1. European niche carriers were hit the least hardest by sept. 11, as they do not cover transatlantic flights.
2. Currently markets are large enough for most Low-cost carriers, they don't have to compete against each other (at least in Europe, except UK). Wait until competition really starts, and we'll see new negative highlights in terms of maintenance, reliability.

So let us stay with the big boys' economies:
In terms of financial strength, we use the leverage ratio, that is net debt to EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes , depreciation and amortization, an indicator for operational cashflow):
Way up front: Lufthansa (3.5), SAS (4.5), (AF 4.7), BA and KLM are above 8 which is in most other industries the death sentence, though not necessarily in aviation: Both BA and KLM are not likely to encounter any cash shortages, as both have cash resources, if (!!) the duration of the current crisis does not go beyond 6-9 months.
There are several more reasons that indicate LH to be way ahead of the others: Their product portfolio much more diversified than that of any other carrier worldwide(Pax, Cargo, Catering, Tourism, IT, aircraft technology, each of the subsidies being well placed on their respective markets and therefore highly valuable). Of course some of these subsidies were hit rather hard by sept. 11 events like catering (No.1 supplier worldwide and especially in the US, where LH's market share is close to 50%), but in times like these a broadly diversified portfolio does pay in terms of financial risk.

On a worldwide scale, other companies that are economically strong, are Emirates (broad portfolio) and SQ (most efficient cost management in the world, LH is currently trying to follow, please remember: LH and SQ are close partners.). But again, I do not include:
1. low-cost carriers as they are a different lot
2. the possibilities, that some companies can count on their government to help them through any financial crisis (see Sabena for possible consequences).

I hope this little excursion into the realm of hard numbers does help.

Regards

Andreas

I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Guest

Qatar Airways

Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:04 pm

Qatar Airways have been very good and are expanding there fleet and introducing new destinations. They have been operationally profitable since 1996 2 years after it started operation.

1(1) A319CJ
8(5) A320-200
7(1) A300-600R
(2) A300-600F
1 A310-300 (VIP + Charter)
(5+3) A330-200
1 A340-200 (VIP)
(2+2) A380-800
1 Falcon 900 (VIP)

They are considering ordering more A330-200 and possibly A340-500.

From 2002 Qatar Airways will be the only official flag carrier of Qatar.
 
planeguy
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:48 am

Here are the ones to watch out for:

Southwest, Ryanair, Easyjet, Westjet, AirTran and Jetblue.
 
swissair
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:34 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:56 am

Balls, AF will never go bust cos the Govenrment wqont let em, gotta preserve frances over controlled very regulated industry!!!!!!!!!!!! Theyll never bust, BA has lots of cash reserves and things they can sell for cash, QF is fine, Delta is not imminent, but anyone is a possibly fragile company in these troubled times  Sad
 
swissair
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:34 pm

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:00 am

Westjet!!!!
JetBlue!!!!!
Great airlines in themselves, wesjets case only helped by C3s demise, a very sad day for some  Wow!
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:11 am

Merrill Lynch just published a report on the airline industry that contained bankruptcy probabilities of the various airlines. They are listed below:

1) AMERICA WEST - 90%
2) USAIR - 80%
3) UNITED - 50%
4) CONTINENTAL - 40%
5) NORTHWEST - 40%
6) AMERICAN - 20%
7) DELTA - 20%
7) ALASKA - 18%
8) SOUTHWEST 0.5%

Personally, I think they are underestimating America West. I personally don't see them filing for bankruptcy any time soon.
 
Guest

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:18 am

Delta is by far the most economically stable (before Sept. 11) THey were painting their aircaft with new paint jobs every year.They Also pay their pilots the highest salaries according to a recent study by the USA today. if they have money to spend like this , that my bet goes With Delta Air LINES

 Smile
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:07 am

KHALIFA AIRWAYS! Algerian airlines!
Lufthansa and Emirate airlines!
VIrgin atlantique seems to be the strongest
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:10 am

WESTJET
 
NWA ARJ
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 9:54 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:27 am

I would have to say that Northwest and KLM are the strongest airlines out there
Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
 
firstclasser
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 3:39 am

RE: Strongest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:06 am

Definately NOT Air Taliban, or Osama Bin L'airline!!!
(c'mon, u KNOW smeone was gonna ake this crack,it was only a matter of time!!!) Acting devilish
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

DeltaASA16

Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:34 am

"Delta is by far the most economically stable (before Sept. 11) THey were painting their aircaft with new paint jobs every year.They Also pay their pilots the highest salaries according to a recent study by the USA today. if they have money to spend like this , that my bet goes With Delta Air LINES"

Actually, CO and WN were the only majors turning a profit before September 11. All the others were bleeding money. Yes, Delta does have a large cash reserve, but they weren't in great shape. Especially after the huge Comair strike, which they still haven't completely recovered from. Last, DL is not painting their a/c very rapidly. They've introduced two new schemes since 1997, and they still have most of their planes in the old colors.