rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:50 pm

Take a look at this picture,


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald



What is that protruding from the fusalage toward the back of the a/c. It almost looks like the rear stairs except that they're to small. Any theories?

rapo
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:52 pm

It's a hook to allow that plane to land on aircraft carriers. Looks like he is on a short final for the USS Carl Vinson.


TB


btw...I was kidding!
 
User avatar
VapourTrails
Posts: 2457
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:58 pm

Yeah, it looks like the stairs, but I've had a good look at it and I really don't know either..  Confused
-VapourTrails = 2001-2004, 2014-
 
rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

RE: Here It Is Again!

Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:59 pm

I'm sure that somewhere, someone is on Photoshop putting together that exact scenario.

Here's another shot....


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald



What is that?

rapo
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:01 pm

I don't know what it is technically called, but it's there to prevent overroation on takeoff. If you pitch the aircraft oo high on rotation that little thingy prevents you from scraping your rear fuselage on the runway.

Hope this helps

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:02 pm

OK, WHY does that ATA plane say British Airways and Air Malta???

Johan!! Fake picture alert!!!!!

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
User avatar
VapourTrails
Posts: 2457
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:04 pm

Could it be one of those tail bumpers, like the Concorde has?  Confused
-VapourTrails = 2001-2004, 2014-
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:07 pm

It's kinda like that, yes. Though it's not really a bumper, it's just there to keep you from over-rotating on takeoff.

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:08 pm

yeah thats exacty what it is.
So the aircraft wont over rotate.. its just a prevention as to the saftey of the aircraft. I dont know why these 727`s have them I dont think others do?
and I think that the airlines might of just used thouse aircraft for the time being since that company was going to sell its 727`s
I think dudes..
 Smile
cya
 
rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:21 pm

The tailskid explanation makes sense. The fact that I've only seen these on ATA 727's begs the question: did ATA 727 pilots have a particularly tough time with over rotaion on these planes? I'm kidding here - I have heard (from a TWA driver) that over rotation was a problem with the type.

rapo
 
Max Q
Posts: 5695
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:27 pm

Its called, appropriately enough the tailskid, and it is, as
aloha stated to protect the rear fuselage during an overrotation on takeoff or landing.

Electrically powered on the -100 series, hydraulically on the-200 it operates in conjunction with the landing gear.
If an overrotation does occur it will be noticed during a walkaround inspection by the presence of scrape marks, or in a more severe impact there is a crushable 'cartridge' attached that will be, well, crushed.

That would require a more thorough inspection by maintenance.The tailskid itself does not PREVENT an overrotation, the physics of a 160,000lb aircraft acting
against a 'puny' tailskid are obvious.

However all modern jet aircraft have to prove in certification called VMU tests that they can be rotated
to such a high pitch attitude on take-off that the tail actually scrapes along the ground until the aircraft lifts
off. You may have seen pictures of this, where the test
aircraft has sparks and flames visible from the tail
the manufacturer will usually mount a wooden skid to minimize any damage.

Aircraft therefore are geometrically limited from reaching
a pitch attitude where they cannot liftoff, or accelerate
as happened on several early Comet accidents where the aircraft was overrotated to such an attitude and indeed, crashed due to its inability to climb or accelerate.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:43 pm

Thanks Max,

That's as complete of an explanation as I could've hoped for.

rapo
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:36 pm

I've seen them on Countless Delta 727s. When I was in MOB. At first, I thought it was the Aft-Air Stair Hinges
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:15 pm

I know for sure that the 753 has it too. And I'm not 100% positive on this but I think that also the 763 and 764 use it, and of course the Concorde.

regards, Max

http://www.IntAviation.de.vu
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 10:16 pm

The famous tailskid! It's on all the 727s I've worked on as well as many other types. The 767-200s don't have it but the -300 and -400 do! You should see some of the things pilots try to cover up.........but the scratches on the tailskid don't lie....BUSTED!!!!!
Steve
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
NG737PSR
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:49 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 10:39 pm

Aloha 737-200 it is a genuine picture as both British Airways and Air Malta did actually use American Trans Air B727-100s to cover fleet shortages during the early 1990s.

Having flown on the Boeing 727-200 as a flight attendant the protrusion is indeed a protection device against tailscrapes.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:31 pm

The tailskid is fitted to.........737s, 734s 738s 739s 753s 763s 764s 773s Concorde. Any more i've forgotten. I can't remember if any MD-80s have it. Maybe the MD-82/83/90 have it fitted -- i can't remember  Smile
Your bone's got a little machine
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

Looks Real

Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:05 am

the photos look real. and at least this person wasn't stupid enough to use the new british airways lettering even if they did make the pic in photoshop.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald

ATA BA 727

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jason Taperell

BA 777 new letters

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald

old lettering, same as the ATA 727


-TWA902fly
Chicago Illinois

life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
crewchief32
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 3:16 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:31 am

Twa902fly,

you dumb little kid, do not calll me stupid or say that these photos are fake!!!
Only because you didn`t exist at the time when these aircrafts have been in service doesn`t mean they are not real!!!

CC32
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 3:34 am

what the hell. its getting really old to not like people because of their age. if you didnt notice... i was proving how the aircraft IS real... and that it would be hard to fake that pic. but i mentioned that YES if SOMEONE wanted to they could take an ATA 727 and put BA lettering on it. I never said you did. and if im such a stupid little kid then why the hell do you care? dont you have better things than to b*tch at people online who are most likely half way around the world from you... and whats even funnier is i was saying the pic was real, but IF it was fake (which someone else mentioned ALOHA 737-200) then the person did a good job. ... haha

-twa902fly
chicago illinois



ALOHA 737-200 said :

OK, WHY does that ATA plane say British Airways and Air Malta???

Johan!! Fake picture alert!!!!!

Aloha 737-200!!
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 3:41 am


I logged N284AT at MAN on 3rd May 1988 and put a little note stating it was operating for British Airways (British Caledonian), which makes me believe that one of the routes it was doing was LGW-MAN.

David/MAN
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:29 am

For "Aloha", who went hyper: N287AT the picture in the title tread was actually leased by AirMalta for the summer of 1987. I know, I flew on it. Although I cannot confirm the BA titles, I assume it was a similar lease. I remember seeing the BA 727 soon after our lease expired and always had the impression that it was N287AT wearing the BA titles. Now it seemes that it was a different plane.
About the tail protrusion, that is called the Cooper Vane. It is only extended in slow flight. In high speed it is automatically retracted by ram air (I stand corrected here). This is to prevent the airstair from being opened in flight. It took its name from the famous hijacking of a B727 over the Amazon jungle where the infamous DB Cooper hijacked the plane, ordered the pilot to descend to FL100, depressurise and then opened the airstair and jumped with millions of dollars he had just stolen.
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:32 am

Well and it was my mistake. I did not know that Air Malta and British Airways borrowed ATA 727s for a time, I apologize.

I was basically going on what Rapo posted with the second picture, no offense was intended.

Aloha 737-200  Wink/being sarcastic
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:36 am

Oh, and for those of you interested in this story, I have it all in the Airliners issue of Nov/Dec '99. e-mail me for a copy. You will love the story.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:40 am

Aloha: that's Ok.
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:45 am

Phew, good. OK, I'm sorry about that  Big grin

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:54 am

Aloha: What a cool members details page you made. You live in Hawaii? I was there for my honeymoon. And there is something else I'd like to tell you (nothing to do with my honeymoon - OK?!?!?!?!)
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:01 am

No I'm movign there in 2 years. What is it you'd like to tell me? (Hopefully not anything bad)
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:06 am

Aloha airlines have a B737-2Y5 that came from AirMalta. It is N810AL. AirMalta bought it new in 1988 as 9H-ABG. I beleive it is the one before last -200 to leave the Boing Factory. Aloha purchased it in 1992.
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:12 am

Ok.......


Man I'm confused!!
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:13 am

why?
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:14 am

Why?
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:09 am

Eh, just one of those days I guess!  Big grin

Thanks for the info LMML

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:30 pm

They even have these Tail Skids on Cessna 172s!!!!!

TB
 
atlamt
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:15 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:30 am

MD-80's have them too. It's a little smaller than the 727's. And it's curved. There is a red indicator on the aft side that is safety wired up usually, but after a tailstrike the indicator is broken free.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=185347
Look at the bottom where the fuselage meets the edge of the picture.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=036549
Or in this one right in front of the airstairs.
Fwd to MCO and Placard
 
Yorkie
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 1:21 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:48 am

British Airways leased an ATA 727 in the late 80's or early 90's for a few weeks. I think ATA provided the flight crew at least.

Air Malta regularly lease extra aircraft in the Summer season. One year we had a Peruvian 727. (something like OB-1303). I think this aircraft crashed on its way back after lease.

At that time I was more interested in military aircraft. ATA kept several 727's in Europe (or rotated a couple). I saw quite a few different a/c in Mildenhall on USAF charters used on passenger flights to Germany and other European bases.
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:54 am

>> It took its name from the famous hijacking of a B727 over the Amazon jungle where the infamous DB Cooper hijacked...

-Did you mean over the future Amazon HQ? Ha, ha. Just kidding

The DB Cooper incident occured over the rain forests of the Pacific Northwest via Northwest Orient Airlines
 
woodsboy
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:59 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:38 am

They are also on all 737s. If you ever have the opportunity to do a walkaround of a 737 on the ground, go take a look at the skid/bumper- 99% of the time, its all scrpaped up! When I worked for ALaska Airlines I made a point in checking them out as often as possible and every single one looked as if it had been scraped on the ground! I had no idea tail strikes and overroatations were so common.
 
Notar520AC
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:53 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:47 am

It's the thing we call a stinger in a chopper. If that hits the ground when you're rotating or something, it sets off an alarm to let the pilots know, "Get your lazy ass moving, cuz we're gonna slam into the runway soon!"
BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
 
lubcha132
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:37 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:17 am

it's a boy!


juuuuust kidding
 
Guest

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:02 am

I may be wrong but...
I think what the original poster showed was the tailskid. The Cooper Vane is smaller.
No?
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: What's On The Bottom Of This 727?

Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:47 pm

Yes, AirMalta did lease the Peruvian OB-1303 from Faucett. And yes it did disappear in the North Atlantic at the end of the lease. The plane had serious pressurisation problems and no IRS. I don't think it even had Omega navigation. Some wreckage was found and I think around 20 people perished. All of them Faucett staff and their families. I flew on it twice, and twice we had to descend to a lower altitude in cruise because of pressurisation problems. There was also a galley fire while the plane was operating for AirMalta that summer. The ovens were switched on by holding the start switch in the Start position for a few seconds until the fan revs up, then release the switch and it returns to neutral. A fault developed where the oven would cut out when you release the switch. So the Peruvian technicians solved the problem by wiring the switch to a screw about an inch above it so that it is permanently in the start position. They instructed us to use the circuit breaker to switch on/off the oven. So off went the first flight and the switch overheated and caused a minor galley fire. That was a lucky escape.
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon


Back to the Cooper Vane, there is only one protrusion at the tail so it must be it.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos