Flying-Tiger
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B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:21 am

Flight International reports that the Boeing B717-200s fate could alread be decided within the next three weeks. An announcement could be expectedbefore the year´s end. The line would be brought to a stop within 12 months. Outstanding orders will be fulfilled during these twelve months. The beneficaries wil be the Embraer 190/195 and the Fairchild Dornier 928JET

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:31 am

The beneficaries wil be the Embraer 190/195 and the Fairchild Dornier 928JET




DONT FORGET THE AIRBUS ALSO!

I am not going to gloat, YES I AM! I TOLD YOU ALL SO!

Sorry, critter592, and LGBphotos!

To bad, so sad, your dad.

 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:35 am

Midwest Express may change their mind still on what type to replace the DC9's. Its possible they may want the support of companies with the aircraft still in production.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:37 am

Airbus actually less. The A318 is designed for longer range missions whilest the 928JET and EMB-190/915 are true Regional Airliners.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
scutfarcus
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 4:36 am


If the 717 folds, then assuming they have sufficient range, the Fai-Dor 728-928s seem like a perfect fit for MidEx, plus they already have a relationship with the company via Skyway.

Can't find anything about the range of the 728s though, and they might be a bit small... and of course buying them would leave MidEx with the MD-80s for the bigger flights, losing the commonality that would have come with the 717...

 
highliner2
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 1:26 pm

Re: Flying-Tiger

Wed Nov 14, 2001 4:43 am

THANK YOU!!!!!! Someone who understands the design and economics of the Airbus...If the 717 goes down? Go Embraer...but it's gonna be tough with all those millions and millions of A318s that have been ordered...oh wait...nevermind...no one seems to be in a big hurry to buy the Airbus either...
Go Cubs!
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:19 am

Range B717-200 HGW: 1,860 nm
Range ERJ-195LR: 1,800 nm
Range 928JET-ER: 2,200 nm (with 100 pax)

Speed: B717-200 HGW: Mach 0.82
ERJ-195LR: 0.805
928JET-ER: 0.81

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:32 am

NO WAY!!!!! I think Boeing should at least wait a couple of years. I mean, what if Northwest gets their act together and orders a heap of them (For those who think Northwest WILL NOT order them, Anything is Possible) Let's not shun the 717 yet. Anyone who hates the 717 just needs to keep their silly and ruthless comments to themselves, for if you are a true lover of aviation, you will not give up so easily.
 
spectre242
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:52 am

I read the FI article too and my impression is that the 717 isn't going to last long, but this has been speculated for quite some time, even before 11th Sept. The 717 needs a big order boost soon (unlikely) if its to stay in production.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:53 am

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. As Critter592 said...if you were a true aviation lover, you would not give up so easily. Boeing would face a massive PR fallout from the workers of LGB. Those folks had more than their fair share of sacifices. We all know Boeing wants to wipe-out the history of McDonnell Douglas, but in the end, it will only bite them in the ass. It's best to keep the 717 going. It's a sleeper hit. It will survive given a chance. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:02 am

I don´t think that the Boeing 717-200 will laat much longer. It doesn´t fit into Boeing´s philosphy and even worse: it does steal orders from the B737NG especially the -600. And to market the B712 huge marketing efforts are necessary which are very costly, especially now when airlines are thinking twice about new orders. And to break-even the project needs a couple of orders (to be exact more than 150), extremly unlikely to be ever reached. For Boeing it is likely more satisfying to dropp of the low-yield regional airliner business, leaving thi market to the specialized players, and to refocus efforts on the B737-600, the more promissing product.

To me it seems that the end of the B717-200 is very, very near...

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
steman
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:07 am

I hope Boeing won't need to stop production of the 717 especially because a lot of jobs and money will be affected in Italy as the fuselage is built by Alenia. But I don't think Alitalia will help this programme.

Ciao

STefano
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:10 am

If that's the case, then let bring the production of the 736 down to LGB then. Since the 717 is outselling the 736, Boeing can prolong the agony of the LGB's plant. This way, those workers can enjoy a few more months of uncertainty before the 736 is dropped. BTW, the SEA unions would never allowed the ANY Boeing-built plane to be transferred to Long Beach. But, at the same time, the Boeing unions would welcome the relocation of the C-17 production line. Go figure. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
AWspicious
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:22 am

I'm concerned about the loss of the 717 because part/all? of the wing is made here in Toronto. Matter of fact, their parking lot is one of the best/busiest places to go plane spotting.
Could something by Canadiar - Bombardier fulfill the role vacated by the 717, I wonder?
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:33 am

Hold your horses there Boeing757fan. Not so fast, just YOU wait and see....
 
jettblasterp
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 7:36 am

You won't see YX buying 728s or 928s. They are too small. They don't carry any freight or cargo which is big for Midwest. All their charter customers will not be happy either. They will most likely take delivery of the 717 or go elsewhere and pick up some MD87s or something.
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:37 pm

Boeing757fan: this is just one of a long list of articles about how the 717 MIGHT be shut down. Not one said that it will. They are probably getting it all from similar sources.
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:24 pm

Well, the 728/928JET are actually having a bigger diameter than the B717-200.

728JET: 128 In
B712: 123.2 In

Payload for the 728JET is 21,000 lb, for the 928JET 27,700 lb. Sorry, but I don´t have the B717´s figures at hand. Maybe somebody could provide them?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:32 pm

What about Hawaiian Airlines???  Wow!



Hawaiian has huge plans to replace its entire DC-9 flett with Boeing 717, if the line shuts down then what will they use? What about the 717s they already have, will they become a thron in Hawaiian's side if they were to go with the Canadair CRJ-7/900 or the ERJ-195?

Also, this Dornier 728, what does it look like? Anyone have a picture?

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
artsyman
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:36 pm

I found the Hawaiian airlines 717 to be a wonderful plane, we flew them recently while island jumping and they were great. Nice modern cockpits etc, would be sad to see them go

Jer
 
rj777
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:48 pm

Didn't Midwest Express sign a firm contract?
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:57 pm

Go here:

http://www.fairchilddornier.com/en/media/ and choose image callery on the right side.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
AIR757200
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Wed Nov 14, 2001 11:47 pm

Poor 717. The only true new T-tail out there.  Sad




AIR757200

 
Banco
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 12:10 am

One of the main problems the 717 has is that only one exit (in everyday service I mean not emergencies) is uusable. This means slow turnarounds, more downtime = less revenue.

There are simply too many alternatives out there for such a flaw to be overlooked. Sorry.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
AA737-823
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 12:36 am

Well...... my favorite airplane is once again in question.

Boeing must either defecate or vacate.

It's a great plane. If they'd shove it down Northwest's procrastinating throat, it's solve many problems for lots of people. Can't that airline make a fleet decision before the change of the NEXT century??? "We're taking the A330 and the 753. Wait, not yet, just kidding..."

That's the rumor I heard from this board, anywho.

I think that MidEx has a plan. When AA gets rid of the TW 717s (which could be in the near future if they can't keep engines screwed on to airbuses) then MidEx will snap them up for a lower price. Sounds appealing to me- a slightly used, yet well cared for state of the art airplane.

It could have done so much more if Boeing hadn't treated it like the illegitimate stepchild...

Sorry for my crass mood.
Randy
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:54 am

Geez this is getting to be an old topic. ALOHA737-200-Hawaiian already has 13 717s in service. They are very happy with them.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 9:06 am

So, I'm curious...what then is Boeing going to give AirTran for $19 million a pop?

OR

Are they going to build the aircraft and let them sit around while AirTran takes delivery over the next 26 months? AirTran is in NO position to take delivery of 26 more aircraft within the next 12 months...and the delivery schedule is quite specific ...ONE AIRPLANE per month until a total of 52 are reached. There are currently 26 on property (in addition to the 34 DC9s).

Hmmmmmm.....time will tell.

Travis
 
Guest

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 9:24 am

Thanks for the images Flying-Tiger.

As far as Hawaiian Airlines goes, I wasn;t sure how many jets they had in operation yet, but 13 jets isn't enough to replace the entire DC-9 fleet.

So, will they continue to operate the DC-9s, or will they look into CRJ/ERJ aircraft to replace the types?

What I mean about the 717 being a potential thorn in Hawaiian's side is that they will inevitably have to replace the DC-9s within the next decade. If the 717 line is shut down, and they are forced to replace them with, say, ERJ-195s, then they have an odd interisland fleet of ERJ-195s and 717s.

IT's a very interesting situation indeed, and wth Aloha looking into the ARJ/RJX-100 you will see some very interesting fleet changes and confusion in Hawaii to come.

Any thoughts?

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
woodsboy
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:06 am

With the fabled Midwest Express fantom order of 717s still seemingly unannounced by Boeing and unconfirmed by the rest of the world AND with the rumors of the demise of the 717, the fate of the Midwest Express order may already be in the cards.

I am a fan of the 717, its a great airliner that has been treated with the upmost disrespect by Boeing, making it miraculous that anybody was even allowed to order it. I dont think the RJs are even remotely in the same league, ride on a CRJ and aside from it being faster than say......an ATR 72, it doesnt feel very much more substantial. Give me a 717 (or a DC-9-30) over a glorified and super stretched CRJ/ERJ sardine can anyday.

Boeing cant be running around saying that the fate of the 717 will soon be decided and expect orders to crawl out of the woodwork. If they were interested in selling them at all, they would be courting American, Northwest and Midwest Express and it seems like they arent giving it a second thought. Boeing themselves forcast a market for the 100-115 seat market at something like 2000 planes in the next 20 years, well.........where are the orders boys? If there was no interest in aircraft of this size, then why are Canadair, Embraer, Fairchild and Airbus all continuing their programs that from Boeing's experience have no market interest whatsoever! Why? Because there is market interest, Boeing just doesnt want to explore that interest with the 717, they would rather make AirTran buy 767-400s and claim that they would be Puuuurrffeecct to replace those old DC-9s, HA!! It could happen!
 
717fan
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:54 pm

OK, I am a 717 fan, but i think we have to wait until Boeing makes a decision about the future of the 717. It is to early to say the 717 is dead or not...and if you read the article from flight international correct then you must have read also this: Boeing is still talking to a group of potential customers who are "close to making a
decision" on whether to purchase the aircraft. The company's 18 October announcement that ist was reviewing the future of the programme"had the effect of putting some off, but it also pushed others towards making a positive move."
FOR ME THAT MEANS THERS IS STILL A CHANCE FOR THE 717.
Who are those potential customers? NWA, AA, Spirit, Qantaslink, Aeromexico, others?
What do you mean?
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: B717´s Fate Decided Soon

Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:38 pm

I would rule out NW, AA, QF and Aeromexico at the moment. NW+AA are struggling too much to consider new orders. QF has postponed its RJ decision. Aeromexico´s future has still not decided and fleet plans wil lgo ahead only when all CINTRA affairs are cleared. Spirit is a chance but I don´t think so. More likely are smaller add-on orders IMO.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20

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