Guest

Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:20 am

I wanted to know more information about the regional jets that are operated today or the ones that will be introduced in the coming years. The reason i posted this was because the manufacturers websites don't offer lots of info.

- What is the most economical aircraft the ERJ170/190 or the FD 728/928?
- Is it true that the FD 928 has performance issues?
- Do you think Bombardier will lose the competition with it's CRJ700/900 against ERJ or the FD jets?
- If you had an airline which would you choose and why?

Qatar
 
Guest

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:32 am

Hey good call, I'll add some more to this a little later, I got some work to do now, but I'll like some info on any of the new RJ's that are out there, will be out there soon and are being developed. If you could prove info on size, pax capacity, and year they will enter service.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:35 am

1) Difficult to say. The ERJ-170 has just entered flight testing, all others are still either in development or the prototypes have not yet been completed. My suggestion is that the 728Jet´s over all economics will be slightly better.

2) The 928Jet has been somewhat redesing to become a "true 100-seater". Performance is expected to be better than that of a simple strech which was proposed first. Especially the "Super Sharks" will improve the performance.

3) Yes. Don´t forget that the CRJ was derived fro mthe Challenger business jet and was already then a strech. now streched even further brings some problems, especially the hull diameter is very narrow, poblems appear whentrying to fit a business class and ground handling is a bit difficult.

4) My preference would be the 728/928Jet. The reason: the flexibility is higher. The 528Jet is on the drawing board and I expect the go-ahead for this plane next year. A 120-seater based on the 928Jet (dubbed X28Jet or 1128Jet) is possible, too. That means I can cover the complete 50-120 seat segment with just one aircraft family.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:38 am

Embraer
170: 70 pax, service entry 2002, 82 orders
175: 78 pax, service entry 2004/5, no orders
190: 98 pax, service entry 2005, no orders
195: 108 pax, service entry 2003, 30 orders

Fairchild Dornier
728Jet: 70-80 pax, service entry 2003, 118 orders
928Jet: 95-110 pax, service entry 2005, 4 orders

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:39 am

I thought the super sharks will only be added to the Envoy 7
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:45 am

No. The Envoy 7, SMA will be the first application. Last thing I heard is that the 928Jet will get them, too, and the 728Jet ER.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 5:56 am

The interiors on the 728 seem amazing, it doesn't feel like a RJ.

Here are the list prices.

328JET $12.65M
528JET $25.75M
728JET $28.75M
928JET $34M

is that expensive or ok. how does the 928 compare with B717 or the B737.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:18 am

I have to agree with that. I took a seat in the 728Jet´s moke-up in Paris this year and it was really good. Unfortunately Embraer´s chalet was closed so I couldn´t compare.

Boeing lists its 100-seater between 35.0-39.5 million US-$. The baby 737NG lists between 40.5-49.0million US-$. Thus the 928JET is slightly cheaper. The ERJs are the cheapest ones because of thelower labour costs compared to Germany and the United States.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:23 am

Do you think US carriers will go for the ERJ or the FRJ?

What performance advantages do the FRJs have over the ERJs, besides ability for J class, that make people think the FRJ will be much more successful?

An inquiring mind wants to know.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

1) Depending on the carrier. ACA is more likely to go FRJ, COEx more ERJ.

2) Performance advantage:
- business class can be installed.
- larger cabin diameter
- maximum range is larger (ERJ170/ERJ195/728/928)
2,100 vs 1,800 vs 2,140 vs 2,200
- maximum cruise speed is higher
0.8 Mach vs 0.8 vs 0.81 vs 0.81
- take-off field length:
1,676 m vs 1,920 vs 1,527 vs 1,895 (ER)

This does not mean that the ERJs are bad - they are very good - but from the figures I have the 728/928 beat them in most fields.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:51 am


Are we forgetting the Avro RJX series then?

David/MAN
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 7:02 am

The Avro RJX series is a bit of a niche thing anyway. Who wants a four-engined regional jet, unless he needs STOL and London City capacity?

My own question is: Why do the new regional jets have the engines under the wing, and not at the tail? What is the gain of that? is it really already noticeable in their small market segment? (I am thinking of the Fokker 70 and 100, or the tupolev 334 and B717 as comparison)

Regards

Ikarus
 
highliner2
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 1:26 pm

What About The Bigger Carriers?

Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:43 am

What about UA Express? or American Eagle?

What about a mainline carrier? Could UA or AA or any other mainline carrier be interested? Perhaps operate the ERJ-170/175 under the express brand and the 190 and up under the main line?

Go Cubs!
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:20 pm

Under-wing engines are easier in real life concerning maintenance.This is the reason why the ERJ/FRJs have them under thewing. The proposed BRJ-X would have had under-wing engines, too.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:50 pm

Well,

the manufacturers hope that the mainline carriers will start ordering their new, large RJs like the ERJ-190/195 or 928JET.

UA should be less interested, more likely that they give this segment completely to their regional affiliates. AA has a tradition of operating large RJs (the Fokker F100 counts like that) so it isn´t all too unlikely to see them ordering new ones. DL is a "Could be", again I see them giving this business to Delta Connection. NW: a strong YES. They are very likely to integrate one of these types into their fleet as their are suitable DC-9 replacements. US: yes, here we even know that they currently have a tender up and running.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Regional Jets Discussion

Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:29 am

I think that the Avro RJX will remain as a niche player only. BAE has officially said taht they don´t want to rpoduce more than 20 frames per year which already pushes them out of a few tenders.

More important IMO is four-engine design and the slower cruise speed compared to the ERJ/FRJs.

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20