fly_yhm
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What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:07 am

What will Westjets next move be and will we see it before the End of 2001 or will they do more announcements before then.

Also anyone in the Montreal Area now that C3 has dropped out of the sky are there a lot of gates open now also hasnt Air Canada dropped some flights out of their?

Well Westjet have any restriction put on them if Micheal Leblanc Gets his new Airline off the gound?
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:22 am

YZF,YYZ
 
yka
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:38 am

It won't be in the west, that I am sure of.
 
iluvwestjet
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:25 am

I believe WestJet had been offered 11 737-700s from the Midway collapse before the C3 shutdown. Maybe they'll reconsider. And it looks like WestJet is now targetting AC Regional destinations (with recent additions being Comox, Sudbury, Thompson, Sault Ste. Marie), so I am thinking they'll continue to expand into those types of destinations.
 
Guest

RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:32 am

Personally, I would love to see Westjet acquire a couple of B-767-300s, and start a YYZ-YVR service.
I know this goes against Beddoes business plan, and perhaps would lead to excess capacity on that route, but it would be nice to see WJ 767's announcing departures for YVR from YYZ.

Just a dreamin.
Canadi>nBoy
YYZ
 
iluvwestjet
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:41 am

The 737-700 could probably do it as well. It's max. range is 3,752 miles and YVR-YYZ is only 2,080 miles. I am actually pretty sure the 737 can do it since AS uses it for it's Seattle to Washington routes.

It's no 767-300 though...
 
gmonney
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:21 am

YYZ would be good, but I don't think that it would be a good finicial move. You see it would be a move in which would cost a lot of money for a long time. Once you came to YYZ you really couldn't leave. With out loosing some customer and creating bad word of mouth.

Smaller airports, like if Pickering (just north of Toronto) gets approved would be a great place for them. It would be like a YHM. small and will take the place of Buttonville!!!

I wish WJ the best of luck,

Grant

Drive it like you stole it!
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:39 am

I don't think that if Westjet brought service to Toronto that they would be pulling out any time soon. YYZ would be a great expansion place for them.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:15 am

YYZ when they eventually go to YYZ it will only be to YYC incase some of you have forgotten YHM is their easter Hub.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Planeawesome
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:19 am

If I was in charge of the Westjet route development strategy I would target London and Windsor next.
I would nibble away at all of the poorly-served, numerous southern Ontario passengers that flood through AC dominated Pearson right now.

Regarding the FLY-YHM question concerning YUL above, yes , there are mucho gates available now. We lost 10 daily flights with the demise of Canada 3000.

We also lost some AC flights, particularly to western Canada and the U.S.

On the other hand, when I flew from YUL last week-end my flights were 80% full.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that most flights out of YUL are now "packed".
Hopefully this will mean the end of the capacity reductions in this market.
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:22 am

Well I still say if they served YYZ it would be taking a huge bite of an apple pie! There is no way they could lose going to YYZ
 
Planeawesome
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:36 am

I think AC is incredibly influential with the GTAA braintrust. They will put up tremendous behind the scenes roadblocks to Westjet's arrival at YYZ.
Westjet may pull it off if they want to but it won't be easy.
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:48 am

I don't think that Westjet will expand into Toronto until it has a larger portion in Ontairio, and well basically the east. Expansion into Toronto brings new problems since they have established an operations base in Hamilton. Look for London and Windsor, then maybe Quebec City.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
iluvwestjet
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:56 am

WestJet actually planned to go into YYZ a few months back but for one reason or another, they backed out.

Here's the press release link:
http://www2.cdn-news.com/scripts/ccn-release.pl?/2001/01/22/0122041n.html?cp=wja

As it saids, they only wanted to go YYC-YYZ as point to point only and not use it as a hub. Hamilton is better as a hub anyways, lots of space and little traffic and no AIF.

I think they need to push into YYZ, just as point to point. Toronto is just too big of a market not to tackle. And if they go YYZ-YYC, it's another route that fights with Tango which means it's more likely to go bye-bye.

I think YYC-YYZ and YVR-YYZ would be a great move for WestJet especially with C3 being no more.
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:07 pm

I heard they backed out becuase they couldn't get a connecting time slot?
 
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yyz717
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:20 pm

WJ backed out because because 1 of the 2 daily arrival slots in YYZ would have meant a very early departure from YYC which would not allow connecting traffic in YYC to meet that specific YYC-YYZ flight.

This surprized me as I would have thought that the YYZ-YYC market would be overwhelmingly O&D rather than connecting (in both directions).

Neil
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:29 pm

Yyz717 basically described why they decided not to move into YYZ. Though now, don't be too shocked. Slot times were the problem, but now since some have come available and the 737-700's are remaining on delivery schedule, anything can happen.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
ywg777
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:29 pm

I can see WJ dding a few flights from Possibly Yellowknife to compete with First air on YEG-YZF or flying to YUL would work too.
YWG777
 
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yyz717
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:35 pm

Ya....Yellowknife & Whitehorse could use some competition with AC. In particular now that C3 wont be competing on the YVR-Whitehorse route in the summer anymore.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
yka
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:37 pm

Pardon my ignorance but why would YYZ need westjet service? There are already so many flights to nearly every major destnation in Canada from YYZ with more then enough capacity then is really needed. Besides YHM is within driving distance of YYZ being only 37nm away.
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:43 pm

YKA the only problem is the service offered from YYZ is Air Canada!
I definetaly think WJ could make full loads here. Even if they came once a day or even every other day. There is a total of 5 or 6 flights a day from YZF-YEG from First Air and Canadian North. Fares are usually between $900-$1300. And they wouldn't even have to refuel becuase it could make a return trip back to YEG and pay Alberta Fuel prices.
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:44 pm

YKA - yes we all know about your "special" little situation...lol

The capacity on the YYC-YYZ is one of the highest travelled cross-country flights in Canada. There is a large market there in which Westjet could successfully tap into. Families would choose Westjet mainly because of outragous fares on Air Canada. On the news in Calgary a few weeks back there was a story about fares, it turns out it is cheaper to fly YYC-LHR and just get off during the turn around. YYC-LHR cheaper than YYC-YYZ...
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
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yyz717
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:46 pm

Well, YYZ is the largest market in Canada with high-yield business traffic on YYZ-YYC. Anyway, WJ sees an opportunity.....it appears to be timing.

The YHM 'hub' for WJ is being developed as an eastern regional hub. The proposed flights to YYC would serve the YYZ-YYC market with connection options in YYC, according to WJ. WJ indicated that the YYZ flights would serve only as spoke for YYC.

YHM actually serves only the far western suburbs of Toronto, along with Hamilton & Niagara. YHM is actually very inconvenient for most Toronto residents to fly out of. That 37nm is with brutal traffic.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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BO__einG
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:49 pm

INUVIK INUVIK INUVIK..

ANd if it is possible that northerly destinations are in the agenda for future WJ expansion in the north where they actually can fly farther than where Grand Pairie is.
Inuvik for seasonal and also Iqualit can use some consideration, but I doubt it..

The 4th 737-700 C-FZWS should be on schedule for delivery pretty soon.
I got word from them some time ago that sometime november.. like day 20+ they should be receiving this 4th NG plane. Chances are I hope so.. But I may also be wrong like the 9-11 may of delayed the delivery..
However if it is being delivered; then expect around sometime this week or next week to see this plane at YYC or YXX..

Oh and for YYZ. ARent they building that monster big terminal to get rid of the centeral one.. (T2 i think?)

Perhaps with that expansion completed, some slots may possibly open up and we may see WJ flying into this big smoggy city sometime in the future..
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:51 pm

Hamilton is Westjet's hub for the long run.

Would it be profitably feasable to conduct a commuter between Toronto and Hamilton?
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
AirCanadaMan
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:56 pm

I asked Mr. Beddoe about service to YZF.

People all around Yellowknife were asking me about WJ serivce, at one time, the public was trying to demand it.

So I followed it up, wrote some letters, he replied. Turns out WJ figure that with the loads of 7F and 5T flights, and their prices, WJ would in turn slaguhter them.
The entire population of Yellowknife would shift over to fly them, espcillay the leisure seekers who wish to visit Alberta fmaily, or go shopping, heck even to see an oilers game. I would not mind flying WJ between the two, then connecting on AC.
Mr. Beddoe expressed concern over the fact that if they were to be successfull, the other two would scale back service, cutting percious combi flights, essentially cutting the north of its cargo. (I find this rather hard to believe)
I think he said not till after 2003 at the earlierest. Mind you this was last year, before a lot happened.

The demand is there, our infrastucture is here, all we can do is wait, and keep waiting.

One summer Royal served us with a 722, and loads were incredbile, full planes literally every flight!

Whitehorse is currently in a huge battle with AC over prices and aeroplan, and the tourist minister is even requesting that Air North commence A YVR service, plus a possibilty of a YEG or YYC service, so again there is potential.

Dash8King, are you also a Yellowknifer?

 
VonRichtofen
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:05 pm

In my opinion, WJ would do pretty good with a YYC-YYZ route. It seems the only realy competition AC had with that route was from C3. It seems like a pretty juicy oppuritunity to me. Of course that's assuming they could get a good slot at YYZ, which I hear could be quite difficult.

Regards,
Kris from YYC
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:12 pm

No Aircanadaman but I travel there quite a bit becuase of family especially in the summer Great fishing!
 
yhu
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That Montreal Question

Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:21 am

At Montreal Dorval there is now more gate space for Westjet to have access to. PLUS....there are rumour floating round of ALL passenger flights being moved to Dorval in December, but we are still trying to comfirm that. If it is the case, ADM would no longer be trying to force them up to Mirabel.

Dave
 
a380
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:42 am

YYZ *needs* WJ!
Maybe WJ can study Pickering as well. Closer to my home Big grin
WJ can start seasonal service to Yukon and NWT.

Meanwhile, Yyz717 is absolutely right about YHM w.r.t. Toronto residents, the traffic on QEW is just brutal.
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 4:49 am

A380 WJ wouldn't need YZF to be just a seasonal operation becuase it is a large all year route northerners use yeg as a gateway for more southern destinations. People up north pay the ridiculous fares just to go to westedmonton mall. They think of it like Disney World or something.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 8:41 am

I think WestJet should surround YYZ much as Southwest does BOS, serving PVD and MHT. This is the first I've heard of Pickering, if it can be developed into a viable commercial airport, WestJet could "bleed" traffic from YYZ, without having to get involved in Pearson's congestion. If they "had" to serve YYZ, spoke flights to YWG and YYC would be their best bet.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
CP97-1B
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 10:29 am

Hey all,

I think Westjet should expand to routes like YVR-YYZ, but maybe if they were considering a larger type for capacity expansion, to consider perhaps a 757 instead of the 767 cause I dont know that they could fill it. (I would absolutely love to see a 767 in WJ colours though!!!  Smile ) And maybe if they could get the legalities of it, they could take over some of the routes that AC is dropping, like the YEG-DEN route for example. I live in Edmonton, and would love to see an increase in traffic (the pattern goes right over my house when the wind is right!)

Anyway, any thoughts you guys and gals have are appreciated!%0>º®
Regards,

Paul
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:17 am

I bet Westjet wouldn't expand their aircraft size. If they decided to it would most likely be a 737-800.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:19 am

I can't believe we're talking about WJ flying to Pickering!!! Hey, i'd love it because the northern boundary of this "airport" is only 6 km from my house, but need I remind everyone that this airport will not be operational until 2015-2020, if EVER??? I don't think Westjet would do well to plan flights to Pickering now!

Now Oshawa, that's another matter. =)
Next flight.... who knows.
 
fly_yhm
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Fallinggeese

Fri Nov 23, 2001 12:33 pm

I was wondering about a commuter flying form Toronto to Hamilton to feed Westjet(Westjet Express) maybe with Dash-8 from Toronto Island.

there was a study done by Westjet that shower the Drive time between Downtown Toronto and Hamilton Airport is less that the Drive between downtown toronto and Pearson just because of the traffic then think of all the congestion at pearson itself compared to YHM.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
ywg777
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 12:38 pm

I think WJ should expand more out of YWG. Everyones flying WJ these days from here. I am surprised they arn't adding another YWG-YYC flight. I also think think YBR(Brandon manitoba) should be served again. they did really well on a temparary basis. I also think there is need to go into YHZ and possibly YYT to invade on AC.
The north would be a good idea. It surprised me they decided to go to Thompson Manitoba. I hope Sault Ste Marie works direct from YWG. I am really worried about that.
YWG777
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 12:55 pm

I think Westjet express sounds pretty cool yhm!!! and they could use either Dash 8's or CRJ's eh
 
watewate
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Fri Nov 23, 2001 1:04 pm

There was a study done by Westjet that showed the Drive time between Downtown Toronto and Hamilton Airport is less that the Drive between downtown toronto and Pearson just because of the traffic then think of all the congestion at pearson itself compared to YHM.


I don't know which highway Westjet took to get this result, but last time I checked, those driving to YYZ and YHM from downtown both go along Gardiner/QEW. I can probably pedal my bike faster from QEW & 427 to YYZ than I can drive along on QEW to reach YHM.

I don't care how bad the traffic is on 427, but it's not that bad.
 
ywg777
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 1:33 am

WJ could get CRJ's for the smaller airports if they are really desprate. I can see them adding windsor Ontario cause I am sure they feel the effect of when J was still around, maybe they could tdo a direct flight out west on a tempary basis.
YWG777
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 3:45 am

There's no way Westjet would buy a Dash-8 just to shuttle people from YTZ to YHM. A whole new fleet type, training, etc, for that one route? and you'd save what, 20 minutes?
Next flight.... who knows.
 
a380
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:21 am

Oops I thought I confused Oshawa airport with Pickering airport (as in another thread started by me too), Embarrassment is there a terminal built in Oshawa airport? (I thought it's Pickering but someone pointed out it's wrong.

 
superdawg
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

An interesting fact as to why Brandon, MB may only have seasonal service from Westjet:

Taken from a speech by Mark Hill VP Strategic Planning Westjet at a Transport Canada Conference in Dec 2000:

"In terms of airports, a lot of airports say, can you come to us, will you fly to us. I guess our stock answer amongst other things is, don’t expect a commitment from WestJet unless facilities can support 737 service, be it existing 200 series or the new 700’s that arrive in about 3 to 4 months time. So that means that precision approaches have to be in place, runway lengths have to be appropriate and terminal facilities. A good example of this is an airport in Brandon, Manitoba, which we’ve served before, we can only operate in the winter due to runway length. Great service, made us a lot of money that 3-4 month service we operated, but we can’t go in there until they extend the runway. This business size doesn’t matter. We operate into Brandon, which is a market population of probably 30,000 people. Grand Prairie is quite a small market, Kelowna is a smaller market. There’s lot’s of other markets of that size that WestJet can very profitably operate into. "

Here is the link to the full speech http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/airforecasting/proceedings2000(800X600).htm#Presentation(MarkH)
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 7:37 am

Superdawg - It's hard to believe that there is an issue about the runway size in Brandon, as PWA used to fly there with their 737's. Mind you they also flew into Castlegar with the same equipment.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
ywg777
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 8:12 am

when the runbway is done in YBR it will be 6,000 feet I think.
YWG777
 
yka
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 8:46 am

Rwy 8/26 at YBR is 6500', that is more then enough for a 737 even on the hottest days. Its another examle of WJ's magengment coming up with stupid exuses not to to serve an area.

I seriously think WJ getting Dash 8's is a terrible idea, its not like air canada dosn't already have enough of them. Then again, if they did get one, I bet that would be the aircraft they'd fly into YKA...if they're ever to begin service here in the first place which I highly doubt they will.
 
Dash8King
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 9:35 am

what about a bus to for YYZ-YHM?
 
Planeawesome
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sat Nov 24, 2001 10:05 am

The fact that everbody unanimously wants WJ service indicates to me that there is a serious imabalance in the Canadian airline market.

I priced a ticket from Ottawa to Windsor return recently. Would you believe $1,100 C for what,700 miles (1,000 kms.). Wow.

Man, if only I had a couple of fully outfitted (recently grounded) Boeings (757 ?). I'm sure I could kick ass.

On the other hand, maybe it's not so simple. VIA rail is looking better and better all the time.
 
fallingeese
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sun Nov 25, 2001 2:36 am

Westjet's expansion will certainly be getting interesting especially due to Air Canada's planned LCC.

FLY WESTJET! and GO STAMPS!
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
yow
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RE: What Will Westjet Next Move Be?

Sun Nov 25, 2001 5:11 am

With C3 gone, you would have to think that YUL and YHZ are at the top of WJ's list of new cities. Probably YXU and YQG aren't far behind either, maybe even YYT now, even though they have said in the past that they would never go east of Halifax.