ord
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

Will Delta Keep Its DFW Hub?

Fri Jul 23, 1999 11:06 pm

I'm curious what everyone thinks about Delta's operation at Dallas/Ft. Worth and where it is headed in the future. Back in 1987 when Delta merged with Western, they said they were going to add flights at DFW (at the time their second largest hub with about 150 daily departures) until there were over 300 departures. By early 1995 they had built a 9-gate terminal expansion and had grown to about 260 flights. But since then it has been all down hill. They now have only 123 flights a day and have not added flights at DFW in years.

Do they make money there? Can they continue to compete with three flights in a market vs. American's heavy frequencies?

In addition, while all of the other terminals at DFW are slated to be completely redone over the next several years, Delta's terminal is not.

Do you think they will eventually shrink the operation so that there are only flights to ATL, JFK, CVG, PDX and SLC? Have we seen the end of a large Delta presence at DFW?

What's the point of a hub if you have no commitment to grow there in the future?
 
ducker
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 1999 12:45 am

RE: Will Delta Keep Its DFW Hub?

Fri Jul 23, 1999 11:56 pm

As noted, I think that DL will continue to de-emphasize DFW as a hub, instead keeping flights on heavy routes. Also, I would expect more (and longer) flights by Atlantic Southwest Airlines on CRJ's for connections at DFW (since DL now owns ASA).

Ralph
 
william
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: Will Delta Keep Its DFW Hub?

Sat Jul 24, 1999 10:54 am

As someone who lives in Texas,it saddens me that Delta has shrunk its presence. You are right they are not growing at DFW. DFW was put on the back burner when they decided to concentrate on Cinncinnatti,where there were no competition. When the DFW airport talk about expansion,never do you here a word about Delta's opinions on the matter. Yet Delta has 20% of O/D passengers out DFW,which is not half bad,when you consider there competitor has a little over 50% of the market,with its 500 flights a day. Again,this is the O/D traffic not total traffic.
 
Guest

RE: Will Delta Keep Its DFW Hub?

Sat Jul 24, 1999 12:08 pm

I am not sure about DFW but at JFK when you look at their respective operations AA has left many holes, especially in the way of international flights, that DL has snuggled into. AA is the largest carrier at JFK and looking at them, I would say that DL could be realy squeezed if AA were to move on them and add flights and at least match their frequency. If AA did this I think that DLs operations here could begin to mirror the operations described at DFW.

Lance
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Not Just DFW

Sat Jul 24, 1999 12:26 pm

I would like to see DL reatain it's DFW hub and expand operations there. Sadly, I am not sure that this will happen. Actually, the same situation is happening at my home airport in Columbus.
America West has been slowly downsizing operations in the past couple of years. America West and America West Express used to have around 45 flights out of Columbus when they first started service here. The airport actually served as a hub operation bringing in traffic from smaller cities such as Toledo, Louisville, and Milwaukee.
Then after slumping load factors and Chapther 11 bankruptcy at AWA, the America West Express service was dropped. Then service to Indianapolis was also dropped. Then AWA introduced new nonstops to Detroit and were quite a few months later. Then AWA announced a large Florida expansion with nonstops to 6 Floridian cities. Then AWA initiated more nonstops to Florida and the East Coast from Phoenix and Las Vegas and all Florida flights were terminated and load factors to East Coast cities were dropping.
Then, AWA announced that they would be increasing daily nonstops to 37 from 28 to 5 East Coast destinations. Yet all they did was replace the 737's that were operating the routes with CRJ's. So now all flights to PHL, BAL (except one), MDW (except one), and all flights to LGA, (except one), are operated by CRJ's.
The problem is that Columbus is no longer treated as a hub by AWA. Now DL has the highest passenger percentage in Columbus and USAirways has more flights out of CMH than AWA. I would really like to see AWA put some more focus into CMH, but I should be thankful that they have kept their hub here none the less. Sorry to dump all this on you who finish this post. I know it's long, but I wanted to tell someone about this. If anyone has any connections to the people at AWA, please tell me if they will expand operations here at CMH. Thanks.
 
Philly Phlyer
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 12:05 pm

FlyCMH

Sat Jul 24, 1999 10:20 pm

Sorry, but Columbus is unfortunate enough to sit in a triangle between three very large hubs (CIN - DL, CLE - CO & PIT - US) that are very profitable. As such, the market is not in CMH's favor for a hub operation of very much size. Also, based on route structure, AWA may not want to or have the money to expand in the eastern section of the US.

Not all is gloomy, however, CMH could try to market itself as a mini-hub ("focus city") to TWA or make a major play for more traffic from Southwest. Also, Columbus should benefit as more 737NGs and A319s/320s come to market with longer ranges and carriers offer more point to point routes. After all, Columbus has major corporate headquarters, state government offices and a growing population with money in their pockets, so somebody eventually will see some opportunity.

Good luck.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: FlyCMH

Sun Jul 25, 1999 3:26 am

Thanks for the info Philly phlyer. Yeah, Columbus is sandwiched between major hubs, but I guess it's just that I'm too overly confident that Columbus could support a major hub. About Columbus becoming a "focus city," with TWA's plans of developing certain cities into focus cities, I was hoping Columbus could seriously be one of them. Yet I was watching the news in Dayton and they reported that TWA was planning on starting a potential hub there. So plans of Columbus being a TWA focus city are very slim. TWA tried to establish a hub here in the late 80's but it never got off the ground. As for Southwest, they have about 14 daily flights out of CMH which isn't too bad. But they have many more flights and gates in Cleveland and I believe they are putting more emphesis in their CLE operations than CMH.
 
Philly Phlyer
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 12:05 pm

Don't Give Up On LUV

Sun Jul 25, 1999 11:40 pm

Even though Southwest (LUV) may have more flights in CLE at this time, they normally don't like to compete directly with Continental at the same airport. Also, they generally avoid fortress hubs with major buildups. This would indicate that the potential growth of Southwest at CLE would be limited.

I used to live in Kansas City and, at that time, Southwest had more flights in St. Louis. With the failure of other airline hubs in KC (Eastern and Braniff), the airport was under-utilized. Lately, Southwest has been building up very rapidly there and now is the dominant carrier.

I'm only suggesting that the same could work in Columbus.

If TWA is dumb enough to go to Dayton instead of Columbus (nothing against Dayton, but Columbus is a much bigger market), I would not be surprised to see another carrier eventually go with a mini-hub in Columbus. That still would be years away. It just seems that there is too much business and too much growth in Columbus for everyone to ignore.

 
Guest

RE: Will Delta Keep Its DFW Hub?

Mon Jul 26, 1999 1:51 am

Hi :



Delta Air Lines has never had any hub in Dallas. Delta's main existing hubs include Atlanta, Cincinnati, Salt Lake City, and Portland.
 
Guest

RE: Not Just DFW

Mon Jul 26, 1999 1:58 am

Hey FlyCMH, send me an e-mail and we'll chat... have some interesting things to tell you....

AWA320@hotmail.com
 
william
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Delta Flyer

Mon Jul 26, 1999 7:15 am

Hmmm,34 gates + 120 flights=A HUB.
 
ord
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

Delta Flyer

Mon Jul 26, 1999 10:48 pm

As William indicates, you are incorrect in stating Delta does not have, and never has had, a hub in Dallas. Up until 1995 it was their second largest operation behind Atlanta. Even today, although they have fewer flights there, it is still their fourth largest operation.