TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:06 am

Recently searching for tickets I found out that Air Wisconsin no longer flies these routes:

DEN-JAN (Denver-Jackson)
ORD-LIT (Chicago-Little Rock)
ORD-MOB (Chicago-Mobile)
ORD-BHM (Chicago-Birmingham)

and Atlantic Coast no longer flies

IAD-MOB (Washington-Mobile)

This means that all services to Jackson, Little Rock, Mobile and Birmingham have been suspended by any United/United Express aircraft. does anyone know why? Could they just combine some routes? like ORD-BHM-MOB and still make a profit? They lost a lot of the southeast market. too bad.

-TWA902fly
Chicago Illinois
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:13 am

AWAC has relocated these aircraft to the west coast market. United Express, Skywest in conjunction with Air Wisconsin, added 30 RJ flights at LAX to help displace the loss of 34 mainline/United Shuttle flights.

Don't worry, once AWAC and ACAI have more RJs, they'll come back.

The United Express system is scheduled to have 296 RJs by the end of 2003, and now with some accelerated deliveries, that number will only grow faster from the less than 100 today.

Am expecting ARJX and CRJ-700/900 orders from Airwis, as well as more 728/928Jet orders from ACAI. Possible move for more Skywest orders as well (CRJ-700/900). This all depends on how United's pilots will treat regional carrier growth.


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    Flying-Tiger
    Posts: 3923
    Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:17 am

    Huh? Since when does Atlantic Coast have the 728/928JET on order? i thought they have only ordered the 328JET to date.
    Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
     
    TWA902fly
    Posts: 2869
    Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

    Flying Tiger

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:26 am

    i am not talking about Atlantic Coast Jet... I am talking about Atlantic Coast Airlines.
    life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
     
    Flying-Tiger
    Posts: 3923
    Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:28 am

    Atlantic Coast Jet does not exist any longer. It has been integrated into ACA which now flies for DL and for UA with both the 328JET and CRJ200.
    Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
     
    SegmentKing
    Posts: 3224
    Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:33 am

    Hass,

    Air Wisky is trying to renegotiate with United to order 35 ARJX 100 aircraft to fly on many old United routes such as BNA, MBS, FSD, etc. United is begging ALPA for an increase (right now it's set at 5 of those aircraft of size). Air Wisky is also talking about replacing the single -100 and 12 -200s for 15 ARJX 85s (2 of which would be operational spares).

    Nate
    ~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
     
    BA
    Posts: 10133
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:45 am

    As SFOintern and SegmentKing said, expect an Avro RJX order from Air Wisconsin VERY soon.

    I think its very likely to happen. They've been looking into the aircraft for 2 years now.

    Regards.
    "Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
     
    BA
    Posts: 10133
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 7:26 am

    I've heard that Air Wisconsin will most likely order a mix of the 3 versions, the Avro RJX-70, Avro RJX-85, and the Avro RJX-100.

    Quite a nice aircraft if you ask me. I know many of you will beg to differ.

    Avro RJX-85:


    Avro RJX-100:



    Anyone have any idea how old Air Wisconsin's BAe 146s are? I don't think they are very old.

    I think its a bit too early for them to retire the BAe 146, but at the same time, I'm excited to see the Avro RJX in there fleet.

    Regards.
    "Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
     
    usflyer msp
    Posts: 2160
    Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 7:46 am

    I don't think that it is AWAC that is hatin' on the south, its united in general. Most of the Cities united has dropped/downgraded have been in the south, and most of them are fairly substantial cities.

    Changes since 1/01 in the real south (does not include Central or South Florida)

    downgraded from ORD
    MEM
    BNA
    RDU
    JAX
    TYS
    ORF

    Discontinued from ORD
    LIT
    BHM
    MOB
    TRI

    Discontinued from IAD
    MOB
    TYS
    SDF
    LYH

    Discontined from DEN
    JAN

    The only cities UA serves in the real south as of now with mainline jets are MSY,ATL, CLT, GSO, and RIC.

    Its a weakness for United


     
    Jason Seiple
    Posts: 686
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    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 11:35 am

    Don't forget the poor people of Lincoln, Nebraska... United went from B757 to B727/737... then said they needed more B737's for the Shuttle operation and replaced them with CRJ's and BAe-146's. Now with the west coast expansion, Lincoln has gone to DO-328's with one regional jet a day.
     
    Flying-Tiger
    Posts: 3923
    Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 5:04 pm

    What can we understand under the term "Air Whiskey" will place an order for the ARJX soon? This year? Next year?

    Regards
    Flying-Tiger
    Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
     
    Kohflot
    Posts: 941
    Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 5:16 pm

    I'm not sure why the pilots at United would allow an RJX order when they're complaining about the number of RJs that UAX has to begin with.

    As for ACAI, the 328Jet is only in Delta Connection colors right now..

    And as for UAL "giving up" on the South.. If you were running a major airline that was bleeding, you'd look to see where it's hurting most. DL pretty much has a lock on biz travel in the South.. so why not put your bigger planes on routes that you know you can make money with and have the RJ feed your hubs from where you can fill them, but not a 737? In a perfect world, UAL would be sending mainline jets to all of the major southern destinations like BHM and BNA and RJs to smaller places like HSV and CHA.. but tough times have gotten even tougher in the last few months and it's just time to be defensive.
    Ask why..
     
    johnboy
    Posts: 2557
    Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Mon Nov 26, 2001 5:58 pm

    It's interesting to me that DEN-JAN (mainline or RJ) even existed in the first place, yet a larger market like SDF never had any DEN flights (by UA anyway).
     
    TWA902fly
    Posts: 2869
    Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Tue Nov 27, 2001 10:05 am

    yeah johnboy... its even more interesting that JAN was served from only DEN, and not ORD or IAD.
    life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
     
    gsoflyer
    Posts: 822
    Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Tue Nov 27, 2001 10:03 pm

    I don't think it is nessecarily that United hates the South at all.

    Look at the cities that Unted downgraded from ORD. Guess what, American upgraded from all of them to ORD. The Cities that have mainline jet service to ORD have 0 American flights to ORD.

    I can speak for GSO in that, American used to fly 4 flights to ORD and 4 to Dallas. All all but one late night F100 flight to Dallas have been canceled. Comair and Skywest have filled in that void.


    So maybe it's AMERICAN that hates the south.  Smile
     
    sfointern
    Posts: 1104
    Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Wed Nov 28, 2001 2:31 am

    There will be 32 328Jets with UEX/ACA by 2003.

    By 2003, in addition to ZW's grandfathered 146s...

    We will see:

  • 85 Skywest CRJ-200s
  • 84 Air Wisconsin CRJ-200s
  • 32 ACA 328Jets
  • 95 ACA CRJ-200s

    Expect all these carriers to convert more options to orders. ACA had the 428Jet on order until i was cancelled, so perhaps we'll see a 528/728Jet order.


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    Flying-Tiger
    Posts: 3923
    Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Wed Nov 28, 2001 2:35 am

    I´minterested to see how Air Wisconsin will now decided since the Avro RJX series isn´t any longer an option. In the past they were said to be teh potential launch customer for the 728/928JET in the USA. Maybe this heats up...

    Lately I heard that UA might increase its nummber of RJs again. Any truth in this?

    Regards
    Flying-Tiger
    http://fly.to/rorders
    Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
     
    LV
    Posts: 1546
    Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Wed Nov 28, 2001 3:02 am

    Haven't you heard the old joke "If you die in the Southeast you have to go through Atlanta to get to heaven." I think we all know what airline that is a reference too!

    Why try to compete against someone who has that much of a lock on the market, your just going to lose.


    Only once have I traveled to the Southeast and not used DL. That was when AA first started DFW-SAV service (okay, its actually Eagle service) and was selling it really cheap just to get word out about it.
     
    SegmentKing
    Posts: 3224
    Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Wed Nov 28, 2001 4:07 am

    Air Wisconsin is going to *have* to stay with the BAE - Avro family, even if it means picking up used birds... they're the only jet that can safely make it into Aspen, which is AWAC's bread-and-butter come winter (like 15 flights to DEN).

    Info on the Air Wisky fleet:

    The BAe 146-100 is an original delivery to AWAC in 1985 I believe.

    The BAe 146-300 fleet was delivered new between 1989 and 1992 I believe. Only 5 were allowed.

    The BAe 146-200 *original* fleet was delivered new between 1986 and 1989. They have some used birds from Tri Star Airlines, USAir, and one from Presidential I believe. Those were 1987 deliveries.

    -nate
    ~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
     
    sfointern
    Posts: 1104
    Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

    RE: UAX/Air Wisconsin Hates The Southeast...

    Wed Nov 28, 2001 6:07 am

    Flying-Tiger:

    RE: Airwis & 146s... They need those quad-rod STOL (short take off and landing) aircraft, as nate said. (I chatted with an AWAC pilot last weekend).

    These are the only aircraft that can safely operate throughout the rockies 100% of the time.

    It's no secret United wants more RJs, and it's only a matter of time until the pilot's contract is renegotiated, with one of the new stipulations for that purpose.

    Here's to seeing large RJs in the United/Express system!

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