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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:14 am

I just read on Atlantic Coast's website that they are now providing service between Dulles and Manchester, NH and that they will also be adding Allentown as well (UAX). More importantly, ACA will be serving Bangor and Portland via Boston (Delta Connection). Since these are PanAm's mainstays, with the addition of having to fly from Portsmouth (Pease Intl. Tradeport), and not being affiliated with any national/international carrier spell its doom? Manchester is easier to connect from than Pease, ditto Boston instead of Portsmouth. More importantly, people could continue their journey's on the larger parent airline instead of switching. I am not making a value judgement as to whether or not PanAm is bad or should go under, just wondering if people think that their regular passenger routes have been undercut. I realize that PanAm's charter business is very strong. Anyway, look forward to people's thoughts.

RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:37 am

Hi there! What happened to the SJU plans? Probably scrapped. I know that in December (I think the 3rd), they will stop their service to BLV (MidAmerica Airport in Mascoutah, IL.) I don't like the fact that they have been dug out the grave 3 times?, and that the airline they are now has hardly no symbol of the great empire they once were. Because of the dropped service, BLV will once again have no scheduled airlines.

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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:44 am

Well Pan Am is flying from SJU to SFB . They were also planning to start a new service into MIA from SJU but I have no clue what happened with that. I dont have a clue on how they are doing on the MCO-SFB route though.
Fly the Flag!!!!
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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 12:31 pm

MIA-SJU has been delayed for how long I don't know. anyone care to shed some light. Wasn't there supposes to be a Sanford-MIA-SJU flight?
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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 1:21 pm

I want you to do a topic serch that I posted called Pan Am New Routes. By December, Pan Am plans to fly between Baltimore/Washington (BWI) to St. petersbourg/Clearwater in Florida using 727-200 jet service. I guess that the Miami service will now be on holed for the moment since Clearwater/St. Petersbourg airport offers quite a reasonable fares of landing fees right now while Miami is somewhat pricey at the moment. Their other plans for December is to have the Clipper Connection (Boston-Maine Airways)service ready for inter-Florida flights From Orlando/Sanford to Clearwater/ St. Petersbourg and as well as to link Clearwater/St. Petersbourg with Naples in South Florida using Jetstream 131s. "Dan Fortnam, Pan Am's Vice President of Marketing and Sales said, "We plan to coordinate our operations in St. Petersburg-Clearwater and Orlando Sanford with those of our affiliate, Boston-Maine Airways, to offer direct connections to other Maryland and Florida destinations, starting with Cumberland and Hagarstown, MD and Naples, FL before tl1e end of the year.
"Rebecca Elupp, lnterim Airport Director for Bangor International Airport said, "The City of Bangor, its City Council and members of the Congressional Delegation have worked closely with Pan Am to bring us non-stop jet service to Baltimore/Washington. The Washington, DC area is one of our top destinations. We know that jet flights to BWI are going to be very popular with Maine and Canadian Maritime passengers seeking an affordable, comfortable and convenient way to travel to the DC area and beyond."
Pan Am recently announced that it would begin service at its second Florida location, the St. Petersburg- Clearwater International Airport, in order to provide service to both coasts of the Sunshine State."
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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 1:32 pm

The press release about ACA at Portland and Bangor was misleading. At Portland we have had 3X daily FRJ's to both BOS and LGA starting just after the "slottery" mess at LGA, and Bangor has had 3X or 4X service to BOS since about the same time. The press release was about the addition of a frequency between both Maine points and BOS, not totally "new" service like many news outlets reported.

While I have personally never flown PanAm III, I know several people who have. They are mostly people who would not consider flying to Florida, but since the fares were decent they gave it a shot. In my view, the people who fly PanAm are not the average business/leisure traveler who is concerened about connections or alliances/frequent flier miles. They are people looking for a cheap seat to a warm place. The fact that they have to drive another 45 minutes to the airport is no object to them.

PanAm is a strange beast, it is wholly owned by Guilford Transport, which is a private New England based company. Because they are privately held they don't have to realese any financial stats, so no one really knows how they are doing. Hopefully I will be able to give them a try if they stick around for a few years.
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 1:47 pm

PAIII is safe, from what I understand. Thier owner, Guilford Transport, is a very wealthy company. They are able to swallow Pan Am III's losses because the rest of thier business is very profitable. Plus, PAIII makes a killing on charter operations, from what I hear. Service to MIA has been delayed due to landing fees. I sure hope to see them soon, though!
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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:03 pm

Maniac, you are absolutely right! I know that their intention was to fly into non congested airports but I think people would rather fly into the airport of the city that they want to fly into. One time I gave Pan Am a try when I wanted to go to Boston from orlando. Sanford was not that bad but Worcester was about an hour from Boston! They said that it' s hassle free to fly into non congested airlports but it certainly has been a hassle for me to drive for an hour to get me to where I want to go on unfamiliar roads and plus, I have to get up extra early in Boston just for the trip back to Worcester for the flight that was scheduled at 10am! Jetblue started not long after Pan Am but why are they so good and expand so fast? Also they do fly to places people really want to go! Why can't the new Pan Am have a start like Jetblue? I think the reason people don't know much about Pan Am right now is because like I said, their routes are like throwing darts at the maps! And two, they need to let people know that they are back. I think if Pan Am started like jetblue, they would sure have much much more passengers flying on them right now and certainly they would be closer to what they were used to be! then again, I'm not saying that i'm right. these are just my opinions.
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RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:10 pm

I don't think that Pan Am is going anywhere.. For the aforementioned reasons, as well as the fact that the market up here in Southern NH, Southern Maine, and even Northern Mass. can, and has supported a number of competing airliners.

If I recall, US Airways operates a couple of commuting flights into IAD (or BWI), so there is some competition on that front, for both Pan Am and Atlantic Coast. While Manchester is convieneint, and pretty easy to connect to hub cities from, PSM is just as easy for Pan Am's niche market (as stated, primarily Florida) travelers. We won't even talk about that hellhole called Logan. If I want to go to Florida, I have a number of choices in New England, as far as budget airlines go (AirTran, etc).

The population density of this area is very high, leading me to believe that there is certainly room for a number of competing companies. Of course, if Pan Am could initiate flights into some larger hub cities (ie CLT, PHL, or even ATL) and survive the landing fees, they would be a far more viable competitor.
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: PanAm Survival

Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:44 pm

Pan Am III's focus is on the leisure traveler who isn't really driven by FF programs. Apparently, their flights to SFB from PSM, Worcester (ORH), and BGR(Bangor - through with 1stop in Allentown) are doing very well - often full on weekends (these areas do have sizeable populations who desire direct jet service to Florida); these should be even more full once the connections to Naples and PIE come are established. Their strategy of sticking to smaller airports is working for them; they actually have not done well by entering major markets (e.g., PIT was dropped entirely earlier this year); hopefully BWI will be better as they will also have a Clipper Connection feed at BWI to Hagerstown and Cumberland in MD (subsidized by local govts). Another sign that they're doing OK is that they haven't announced any layoffs or route cutbacks since Sept 11 (the dropping of Mid-America excepted but they'll be using the a/c for BWI instead). The one thing they should do is look into replacements for their 727s, which, while reliable, have been giving them many mechanical delays.
Overall, Guilford is a conservative company which watches its investments very carefully; they're into running Pan Am for profit and don't have much tolerance for supporting vanity projects (gee- why couldn't they have been around to instill that in Pan Am I and II?). They watch their costs very I think they're pretty solid...

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