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UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:56 am

UAL has started it's SYD-MEL flights as an extension of SFO-SYD. Oddly enough, UA is allowed to sell tickets soley on the SYD-MEL sector. Australia allows foreign carriers to operate domestic routes?
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:59 am

Yes, but only since there is such upheaval in the industry there. The gov. mainly allows foreign carriers on domestic routes to compete with Qantas, I think.

Aaron G.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:59 am

Yeah, the Australian govt recently decided to allow this in response to the AN situation. They are also letting Garuda and (I think) MAS do similar things as well.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:07 am

If MAS is allowed to sell their Sydney-Melbourne tickets, they can only sell it to those who wants to travel one-way from Sydney to Melbourne since MAS do not operate the other way round. Furthermore, the timing isn't something people want to travel, late evening!

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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:43 am

UA's service is really only of interest to leisure travellers given it is outside of peak hours in both directions and requires earlier check-in for int'l departure processing etc.
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RE: UA's Decision Hurts Ansett

Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:48 am

United have been granted permission to fly domestic pax on the extension of their SFO-SYD-SFO flights, to Melbourne. As stated above the reson for this was of the Ansett situation & the federal Government allowed Garuda (ADL-MEL) and Cathay Pacific to pick up domestic pax (called 'cabotage') and fly them on their domestic sectors. 'The Government offered temporary dispensations to allow foreign airlines to put spare seats into Qantas's reservations system and fly domestic passengers to alleviate a shortage of capacity.' The General Manager of United Mr Stephen Pearse, said the service was being treated as an extension of its SFO-SYD service. The new service will be reviewed with the Governement at the end of December! "But the indications....suggest that the service is needed"

My understanding is that Garuda & Cathay will no longer be able to carry domestic pax (cabotage) in Australia after December.

Ansett has stated that United's $50 airfares are going to hurt it badly on the Mel-Syd route as they struggle to fill their capacity, currently flying at about 40% on that route, when they need about 66% full to make a profit!
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:42 am

What about Thai? They fly a lot of intra Australia and trans tansman flights (as extensions from BKK)


RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:32 pm

John Howard needs to think about what he is doing here.

There is an offer from Lew/Foxx to buyout Ansett, which will make the airline 100% Aussie owned again (the government actually prefers to let our assets fall into foreign hands obviously), put 4,000 people back into work (directly, with how many indirect jobs once again guaranteed?), etc, etc.

But instead, here we have those out-of-touch morons in Canberra, allowing FOREIGN airlines to fly on Australian domestic services. The money they make from these flights does not under any circumstances have to stay in Australia. What is going to stop the government from allowing these airlines from enjoying cabotage rights on a full-time basis? They have no support for Australian business; they are more interested in boosting the coffers of airlines from Chicago, Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:36 pm

I'm sure the rights to fly local passengers Los Angeles to New York on the QF107 would have helped in the post Sept 11 chaos, but that didn't happen.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:43 pm


Come off it...United is USD 1.2 Billion in the hole and losing money at the rate of 3-4 million dollars a week. If you think United management is rubbing its hands with glee at the prospect of a few AUS $50 SYD-MEL fares "filling its coffers" you have got to be joking.

Isn't it Lew and Fox who are ultimately hoping to sell a repackaged Ansett to the Singaporeans (and thus making a tidy sum for themselves) just like a hooker in a brothel?

RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:44 pm

Exactly AJ (how ya been anyway?).... we in this country are too quick to sell out to foreigners at the behest of our own people.

RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:50 pm


We aren't responsible for anything to do with United in this country. Why should we allow United (or any foreign airline) to operate domestic services on SYD-MEL when Ansett needs all the support it can get.

UA's general manager says that the services are needed. What a load of shit. If AN's load factor is running at 40% currently, then how in hell can the service be needed?

If Canberra doesn't want to give tacit support to Ansett, the least they could do is to help ensure that people will fly with AN and not let foreigners in this market (and I don't care if it is only for a short time.....because these things have a way of becoming permanent).
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:56 pm

On principle I agree with you---its simply your assertion that UA, GA, or any other airline is making a gangbusters profit on the agreement that I happen to disagree with.

As for Howard and Anderson allowing foreigners into the market, I suspect they would invite Air Koryo do fly SYD-MEL 12 times daily on their spiffy IL-62's before they ever gave Lew/Fox or the ACTU a leg up.

IMHO, the lack of government business or ticket guarantees is going to have a much greater impact than cabotage by non-Australian airlines. But I was under the impression (mistaken I suppose) that some were welcoming this before the new AN re-integrates itself into the Star Alliance. Probably the usual United spin.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:34 pm

But at the same time, it provides for a wonderful 6-day trip for the SFO-based crews!


Not a bad trip, really...the worst part would only be that first day in SYD with the killer arrival time!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:47 pm

Am I wrong in assuming UA announced the LAX-MEL extension before the government announced that UA would enjoy local traffic rights on the route?

Surprised QF don't kick up more of a stink about this but then again its only one daily flight at a very odd time of day and pax must go through international pax processing as stated by Tullamarine above.

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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:48 pm

That should have read "SYD-MEL" extension above.
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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:59 pm

OK lets have a big think about Fox/Lew Ansett and United, then you be the judge.

When Fox/Lew were announcing their proposal for buying Ansett what aircraft were they sticking their heads out of ???

And from which airline are the 29 A320s coming from ???

Now think about domestic feeds for United's 3 daily US flights.

Get the picture !!!

Now can anybody say for sure that United are NOT behind the Fox/Lew bid for AN.

And why are Fox/Lew still going ahead after the Govt. has rejected their demands - think about it.

Star Alliance logos are still on AN metal.

SQ may have lost interest but UA are sure to be a player.

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RE: UAL Inagurates SYD-MEL

Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:46 am

I think its really cool to be able to fly airlines of different countries for domestic services. I checked for SYD MEL route and it includes schedules for UA, OA as well as TG ....does it mean all these airlines have cabotage in Australia ?
There is also an airline I have not heard...Yanda Airline ...what is it ? or Who is it ?

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