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Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:06 am

I had the chance to speak with someone from the Qantas product development department the other day, and they told me the following:

1/ All the current B767-300 (GE) aircraft will be seconded to Australian Airlines next year.
2/ Qantas will take delivery of another 10 (RR) ex BA 767-300 aircraft, to replace the above.
3/ The Australian domestic (widebodied)fleet will comprise all A330 & (RR) B767-300's. The A330's will have around 290 seats.
4/ The new B737-800's start arriving mid January & will seat around 185 all economy seats.
5/ All aircraft will be fitted with a new 'slimline' economy seat. The B767's & A330's will primarily fly the trunk routes between Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane.

New service and crew compliments (cabin) starting in January. A new domestic & modified tasman service will be introduced from early January, this is inline with what has happened since September 11 & also my guess is to hit Virgin head-on. Crew compliments will be as follows:
1/ B767-200/300 - 6 F/A's
2/ B767-300 (RR) - 8 F/A's
3/ B737-800 - 5 F/A's
4/ B737-400 - 4 F/A's

Well you have to give it to Qantas, they don't sit still for very long & my guess is they don't want to allow VirginBlue any breathing space. Those new B737-800's will no doubt fly head to head with VB and the fares will be comparible too. No doubt VB will be talking to the ACCC about what Qantas is doing & Ansett maybe a little worried too!
Geoff Dixon is a smart man, he & his board know that the future will be a tough one - my only hope is that Ansett can find a niche & a profitable future under Fox/Lew. We still need competition in this country!

Cheers - BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
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Australian Airlines...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:28 am

When is Asutralian Airlines going to start operations? What routes/hubs do they have? How many B767-300 (GE) does Qantas have? Thanx.

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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:35 am

For you especially BZF, there is the sad sight of a very lonely GE 763 sitting at AN Gate 13 in MEL, VH-BZF. I assume its owners have got around to reclaiming it yet.

When you say that all the QF GE763s will move to Australian, I assume you are only talking about the domestic GE763s!
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:36 am

Australian Airlines is reported to fly the lesiure routes (eg. Manilla, Kuala Lumpur etc). Sounds like Qantas is set for some good times ahead.
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:50 am

hmmm, not much FA's on board the aircrafts i may add!!


PS Especially the 767-300/200ER, there service will go worse, not better!
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:51 am

Australian Airlines is due to be Cairns based
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:25 am

If Qantas were to transfer all their GE 767-300's to Australian Airlines, that would give Australian a flight of 22 763's. This seems rather excessive. As Tullamarine points out, it's probably only those that are currently fitted out for Dometic Operation, and those few 763's that are currently in the old International Config, of which there are about 3 or 4. This would then give Australian a flight size of about 7 to 8 763's, allowing then for a replacement with BA 763-336's RR's. I imagine Qantas would still require 763's to operate normal Qantas Services, as places like Singapore, Hong Kong are not expected to become Australian Airlines Destinations.

Qantas has a flight of 22 767-338's, 7 ex BA 767-336's and 2 wet leased ex Ansett 767-33A's at this time.

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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:32 am

How on earth do Ansett Mk II expect to start up in the current climate (that is if Messrs. Fox and Lew actually want to run a viable airline which I doubt).

QF takes all the business pax and will soon flood the market with overcapacity (lots of cheap seats) in an effort to stave off DJ. Where is the room for Ansett?

Full-service, full-fare airline wont have a chance in the current market. Full-service, low-fare airlines don't make money.
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:22 pm

From what I know some of this is true and some is utter rubbish. Aircraft selection and start-up date for AA has not been decided,contrary to just about everyone stating the 763 is a shoe-in. All QF has said is that AA will probably start with around 6 250+ seaters. The 763 is a real chance but it is no way definite and this guy doesn't know these things for sure as the decisions have not been made.
I can't see QF getting many more ex BA 763s. They must be just about at saturation now and with 13 A330s, 6 744ERs and 15 738s arriving before the end of 2003,how many more planes do they require(and they still haven't ordered any RJs yet)? Maybe a few more 763s from BA, but not 10. Believe me the plans for AA are still very fluid.

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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:05 pm

4 new Virgins due.

From tomorrow 4 new aircraft in next 15 days
VH-VBE 737-700 DUE BNE 20DEC

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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Wed Dec 05, 2001 5:23 pm

Re australian Airlines and the BA 763's. My understanding is that BA is committed to keeping their 763's currently because of the capacity downgrade. Where 777's were flying, at the moment the 763 would be a better capacity option, leaving the B777's to cover the weaker B747 routes.

QF needs several "float" 763's to cover the withdrawal of up to 5 aircraft for reconfiguration change. They do not want to do it slowly - when AustAir starts it will be full on and all the aircraft will need to be ready.

The orginal thought was that schedules could be balanced by the Air Canada aircraft to allow the withdrawals, but they are now needed to cope with the capacity shortfall on the trunk routes (and the NZ /trans tasman operations).

Topic Author
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:12 am

Hoffa - Full service airlines DO actually make money, that is why Qantas (& Ansett mkII) will keep business class on business routes. Where there is no need for it outside these markets, Qantas (like VirginBlue) will only offer Y/Class seats. Simple really! I am sure that business pax prefer to be seated in Business class flying from Sydney or Melbourne to Perth than be cramped up in a VirginBlue economy seat on the same sector (where money is no option of course!).

Tullamarine - Yep sure is a sad day, I loved flying on BZF & to see it go will be hard! Like the rest of the B767 fleet, Fox/Lew have stated that there is no need for them now - sad really! I noticed the other day when I was in Sydney that VH-BZL has also gone, joining the B747's in departing our fair shores!

All the above info was given to me by a source in the product development area of QF. This source is working on the introduction of the new seats & service that are about to be launched on QF domestic services. International flights will also see some changes early next year starting February, as Qantas tries to reduce its cost base & ward off the huge slump in travel demand. This source also stated that more seats would probably go into QF's B763's at the expense of some of the current galley setups!


Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
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RE: Qantas Changes - Lining Up Virgin Blue

Thu Dec 06, 2001 5:22 pm


Thanks for the imformative post regarding Qantas,
this plus the launch of Australian Airlines next year
should put them in a very stong position, Virgin
Blue have just announced they are dropping their
Brisbane-Mt Isa route, leaving this to QF, DJ will
now use the aircraft for an additional BNE-CNS


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