MAH4546
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Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:51 am

And to think, this only includes FLL-NYC. Add PBI-NYC (#7) and MIA-NYC (#12) as well, and the South Florida-NYC market dominates  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. I am a little shocked that PBI-NYC is above MIA-NYC. Frequency is similar (PBI is 22 dailies, MIA is 20) and AA uses large A300s and 757s to JFK, EWR, and LGA (though I'm sure PBI probably get's some large planes too).

N.Y. to Fort Lauderdale is nation's most traveled air route

By Tom Stieghorst
Business Writer
Posted December 5 2001

Airport officials said Tuesday that the popular New York-Fort Lauderdale run had become the most heavily traveled airline route in the country in the first six months of 2001.

Over 9,700 passengers a day board 38 flights shuttling daily between Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport and three major airports in the New York area.

The route has grown steadily more popular with passengers in recent years. In the winter of 1999 it was the third most traveled route, behind only New York-Los Angeles and Honolulu-Maui. It moved up to second last year, supplanting the Hawaiian islands pair.

This year it overtook the New York-Los Angeles transcontinental route, which accounted for an average of 7,800 passengers a day, airport officials said.

Only the 34th largest airport in the country, Fort Lauderdale has also been one of the fastest growing airports because of relatively low costs and its central geographic position among the three counties that make up South Florida. Except for Florida, New York is the largest origination market for Fort Lauderdale, accounting for 11.3 percent of all visitors in 2000, followed by Pennsylvania at 3.8 percent and New Jersey at 3.7 percent.

The information about which routes are most popular with passengers is tracked by Aviation Daily, an airline trade publication.

Fort Lauderdale has benefited from the buildup of discount service to the New York area, most notably by jetBlue Airways, which began operations in February 2000 by flying between Fort Lauderdale and New York's JFK International Airport. Miramar-based Spirit Airlines is another discount carrier that has expanded in the New York area.

Delta Air Lines and Continental Airlines, however, remain the two carriers with the most capacity on those routes, airport officials said.

The New York-West Palm Beach route ranked No. 7 in the top 25 routes compiled by Aviation Daily for flights of over 750 miles, while New York-Miami ranked No. 12.
a.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:25 pm

New York can thank JetBlue, and JetBlue alone, for making NYC-FLL its most traveled route. Delta and Continental might have the most capacity. But they wouldn't be bothering to offer lower fares and more seats if they didn't have JetBlue to compete with. The dominant airline on a major route with low-fare competition between major airport, generally lowers fares to keep market share.

I'd be curious to know if DL or CO had more capacity on NYC-FLL *before* JetBlue's eight daily 162-seat flights from JFK. Might there be some capacity dumping going on here?

The Gold Coast real estate developers must love JetBlue. Pricey condos on the waterfront are all the more attractive, when the retirees know their children and grandchildren can afford to come down and visit.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:40 pm

DCA-ROC Guy, first six months of 2001 was only 6 daily. It is currently 8 daily. Goes to 10 daily the day after X-Mas. I believe DL has increased capacity between NYC and FLL since jetBlue, at least to JFK. Your right that South Floridians love them, though.
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Hoffa
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:04 pm

As far as I can remember fares were always cheap from the NYC area to wherever one wanted to go in Florida, Jetblue or no Jetblue. Its been my experience with B6 that the cheapest tickets sell out very quickly, leaving fares well over the $200 mark which any major airline can easily beat.

Midweek, Saturday night stay fares (LGA-FLL) were never more than $150 in the past and today run in the $120-160 range. I think the impact of Jetblue to the consumer is overstated, even if they are chipping away at the bottom line yields of the majors.

DL has been running 8-10 daily 763/L10's on the route for years--don't really see any evidence for capacity dumping.
 
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:36 pm

Hoffa is right.

I just booked a very early morning one way on B6 JFKFLL on 20 December for 200 bucks. It'll probably be another 200 bucks going home

400 r/t on JetBlue to florida!!!
 
timz
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The Usual Confusion...

Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:17 pm

...between airport-pair and city-pair.

The busiest airport-pair in the US may be HNL-OGG, but whatever it is I'm guessing it doesn't include FLL.

If you combine LGA-EWR-JFK, then you should at least combine SFO-OAK and LAX-BUR, in which case the "San Francisco-Los Angeles" city-pair remains the busiest in the US. As it probably has been for the last forty years or so.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:25 pm

Wow! I'm really surprised! I knew that it was a popular route, but not that popular.

Anyone know why there are no/if there are 777's/747's used on this route by anyone?
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:41 pm

Timz, I agree. Combine SFO/OAK/SJC, combine ONT/LGB/LAX/BUR, but also combine FLL/PBI/MIA. MDW/ORD, DAL/DFW, DCA/IAD, and HOU/IAH are all combined.

Boeing Nut, no, no 747s or 777s. UA does have a 763ER on MIA-JFK and AA uses quite a few A300s to EWR and JFK. CO will launch the 753 on EWR-FLL while DL uses the 764 on FLL-LGA. Tower Air, however, used to fly and fill 741s daily on MIA-JFK AND FLL-JFK. AA does ocassionally use a 763 as well. Nine airlines--Southwest, jetBlue, Spirit, American, Continental, Delta, Delta Express, USAirways, and United-- fly between South Florida and NYC.
a.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:49 pm

MAH4546,

Thanks for the info. I used to work for Broward/FLL, and I remember that Tower started that route when I left and Delta was flying the L-1011. So, CO is launching the 753 on the EWR route? Cool!! I'm really surprised that neither UA or AA is using 777's yet.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:11 pm

Boeing Nut, UA doesn't use 777s because the four 777s based at MIA run the rotations EZE-MIA-LAX-MIA-EZE and GRU-MIA-SFO-MIA-GRU, each which take two days to complete. I think it would be nice to see AA 777s on MIA-JFK, but the seven 777s that are here again are busy doing Latin America, as well as DFW, LHR, and LAX (though two more 777s are coming next Saturday!). None the less, I think the A300 is the best airline for the market. 777 is probably to expensive to operate on MIA-JFK, although UA uses 777s frequently (usually weekends during the winter) on MIA-IAD and thrice a week on MIA-HAV.
a.
 
timz
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Finally Got Time...

Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:29 am

...to run through the valuable table linked in

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/659498/5/

I guess the figures are for calender 2000. Looks like HNL-OGG was the top airport-pair, with twice as many pax as FLL-LGA or FLL-EWR.

Combined FLL-MIA-PBI to EWR-LGA-JFK totalled 5,939,430 (total of both ways), while SFO-OAK-SJC to LAX-BUR-ONT totalled 7,254,360.
 
Hoffa
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 4:03 am

Twaneedsnohelp,

Unless you live in Queens, why would you go out of your way to fly Jetblue when its costing over double the amount of the next nearest competitor? For me, a cheaper flight out of LGA plus the miles are worth it to not have to schlepp all the way out to JFK.

 
dutchjet
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 8:41 am

Interesting, note that CO flies its 752s on almost every flight between EWR and FLL, and will introduce the 753 on to the route in January with 2 daily round-trips.

But, I am old (over 40), and I remember when the NYC-FLL routes were dominated by Eastern L1011s and A300s out of JFK, LGA and EWR, and National DC-10s also out of all three NYC airports. The same was true to PBI and MIA, but to MIA you had the option of National 747 service. Times have changed; one winter, I think both Eastern and National advertised that they were all wide-body to MIA and FLL out of the NYC area.
 
Guest

RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 11:10 am

I don't live in Queens, but JetBlue was the cheaptest I could find for that date.

I agree that cheaper flights from LGA are much more preferable but sadly they don't exist!
 
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STT757
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:11 pm

Cheap flights LGA-Florida is what Spirit offers.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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spinkid
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:25 pm

yeah, Spirit offers cheap flights LGA-FLL, but they offer one of the worst products going. They don't compare at all to jetBlue.

LGA is more convenient to Manhattan, but if you live on Long Island or Connecticut it doesn't make much difference.

Flights have always been cheap on this route in the past few years at least, there has always been someone offering low fares like Carnival, Pan Am II, Braniff III, SkyBus, Sunjet, etc. However, jetBlue is the first to really load up capacity, none of those carriers ever offered 6-10 non stops a day on the route, at best it was 1 or 2.
 
Hoffa
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:35 pm

Spirit...ugh. I don't play games with my life that way and I am happy to pay extra for the piece of mind. They will get you there, but how they manage to do it is beyond me.

I think the Holidays are upon us and the airlines are milking we consumers just a bit. The cheapest fares are long gone unless you want to make 3 connections on USAirways through the backwoods of Virginia.
 
ILS
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:35 pm

What is in FLL that makes so many people want to go there?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:41 pm

ILS, Miami. Miami is only 19 miles to the North. The FLL area also has a big business community, with major corporations based there including Office Depot, Sports Authroity, ANC, AutoNation, FPL, Citrix Systems, and a few others. However, FLL is loved by South Floridians because it is so easy and convienent. It maybe further from downtown Miami and South Beach than MIA, but it's not as congested, offers better frequencies to many O&D destinations (such as Atlanta, Hartford, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York City), offers cheaper fares (flying America West on FLL-PHX is usually $100 less than flying them on MIA-PHX), and even some destinations that MIA does not have (Islip, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Biloxi, Cape Haiten, Sarasota). Were they do lack is international (Caribbean aside) and trans-cons (AA to LAX; HP to LAS/PHX).
a.
 
Hoffa
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Sat Dec 08, 2001 4:09 pm

Also, Miami is a bit "intimidating" for the typical American family vacationer while the FLL area beaches are a lot quieter and more wholesome. Miami is a lot more expensive and showy (more of a 'scene' there) while FLL offers the same quality beaches for cheaper prices without the fuss.

 
TWFirst
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RE: MAH4546

Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:15 am

I think you meant to say Miami was only 19 miles to the SOUTH of FLL, not the north. And I agree with everything else you said. Also, thousands of New Yorkers have condo's in Broward Country and South Florida, which is the major reason for the popularity of the route. In fact, I've heard the term that Broward County is a "suburb" of New York.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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STT757
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RE: MAH4546

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:44 am

Watch a Miami Heat- NY Knicks game (in Miami) and you'll see NY's presence dwarfs the Heat fans.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:50 am

STT757, dwarf? Not really. A lot of Knicks fans? You bet, because before the HEAT, the Knicks were Miami's "home team", but they in no way dwarf the HEAT fans. They are plentiful, though, there is no doubting that, but the rivalry has died down a little. Though that is a good example of the larger number of New Yorkers in Miami. Also watch a Jets-Dolphins game and there are a very large number of Jets fans. Miami has a huge NYC transplant population and NYC has quite a large Miami transplant population as well. And it's New Yorkers that give Miami its Northeast culture.
a.
 
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STT757
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RE: Sun Sentine: FLL-NYC Overtakes LAX-NYC As #1 In US

Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:02 pm

Agreed, NY + Miami =  Smile
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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