kaitak
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Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:35 pm

AirlinersOnline is reporting the following today:

Finally, the company has elected to acquire some of the Airbus A340-600s previously earmarked for Swissair (hot new item) for deliveries starting next year. One of the routes it will be used on will be the Madrid - Canary Islands (Tenerife?) routes.

Any comments? Has IB confirmed this? I have heard speculation about it, but nothing firm and as much as I enjoy airlinersonline, it's not always 100% accurate


 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:36 pm

Fantastic news if its true. It would be terrible if they just sat around in France.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:47 pm

Word is that at least two of the Ex-SR A340-600 will go to IB.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:51 pm

I hope they talk all 5, maybe they can take 4 and CX take the other aircraft to make a fleet of 4.
 
rlwynn
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:06 pm

Why would Iberia buy brand new 340-600s to fly 1100mi?
I can drive faster than you
 
BestWestern
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:47 pm

As I have said over and over again, IB are a really badly run airline, with no concept of profitability or fleet uniformity.

IB purchased the 757 for the canary islands runs, even though they had ordered the A321 and A320.

Yet again, these guys are fooling themselves.

Spain is ready for a domestic low cost carrier to whip Iberia.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:00 pm

The B752 were ordered long before the huge, 76-frame strong A32X order was placed. And the A340-600 are for sure not for the Canary runs but for B742/DC-10 replacement and A340-300 upgrade.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
gerardo
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:49 pm

I don't know, which flight, but one of IB's flight to South America makes a stop on the Canary Islands.

So much for the MAD-Canary Islands flight.

As for the A346: Flightlease, SR' leasing arm, had an order for 9 A346. If IB takes a few, where will the others go? CX?

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:54 pm

Well, others might call replacing 742 and D10 with 343/346 a wise move; add an all A320 series short haul fleet and a 757/767 fleet for trunk short, normal medium and thin long haul flights and you get what I´d call a perfect fleet - three families covering the whole spectrum. It´s of course a long way to go until then, getting rid of all those DC9/MD80s, A300s and 737s is nothing to be acomplished short term, but they did go ahead with the 727s and DC10s (?).

Oh, and what´s wrong with putting the 346 on Canary runs - if the plane is filled. Might be a stop enroute to Latin America, they used to do that with the 747s.

Daniel Smile
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:55 pm

oops, sorry - that last post wasn´t there when I started writing mine.
Daniel Smile
 
airafriquedkr
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:28 am

Iberia operate Madrid-Tenerife (TFS)-Caracas right now once a week using an A340. Also currently they frequently use the A340 on flights to Tenerife, both to TFS (reina sofia) and TFN (norte los rodeos).
 
BestWestern
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:30 am

Even if full to overflowing every day I cant see the 346 being profitable on MAD - TFS. It has too high a CASK (cost per available seat KM) and cycle specific maintenance issues for the very low yield leisure traffic on the canary islands routes.

Iberia have so many underused aircraft types in their current fleet which will fit the range and capacity needs for the canary islands routes that they don't need to invest in new fleet for the route. During the Northern summer IB wet lease larger aircraft for this market for the leisure traffic. They should either continue doing this, or better, increase frequencies, or squeeze in a canary island sector on the underused current A340 routes, rather than flying it with a 30% load factor to LHR.

BTW IB have had A320's in the fleet for 10 years + now... They subsequently invested in 757's and then A321's (which were returned to Toulouse).

Very few IB routes need the capacity that the 340-600 needs. They would be far better off focusing on the fleet they have, finding profitable routes for them, rather than, yet again buying yet another different aircraft.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
gerardo
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:33 am

BTW, apparently even the B742, which IB used on the MAD-TFS flights, were getting too small for the amount of pax and cargo needed.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:39 am

The 340-600 is not a new aircraft - they already have the 340-300.
The 321 are still in use at IB - if acquiring 319 and 321 in addition to 320 is not a smart move I don´t know what is.
I don´t know whether the 757 joined the fleet before or after the 767 - in any case I believe it´s a wise decision to build up a 757/767 fleet as a sort of hybrid between for the pure long haul and the pure short haul fleets.

Daniel Smile
 
kaitak
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 2:53 am

The smart money for the other 346s is now on PK. The airline seems to have dropped plans for the 777s (which is rather disappointing) and is aiming for an all-Airbus fleet. The 346 would fit its needs quite well, but moreover, it has requirements for replacing quite a few types (let's face it, it's a fairly ragged fleet, except for the A310s and 743s!) and the F27 and A300 are top of the list. The ATR42/72 and A330 (ex SN/EI) could do this.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 3:25 am

Airsicknessbag, Iberia have announced that they are returning the A321 in favour of keeping the 757 - which was ordered for the canarias markets. For me not a wise move...

Back to my point

The -600 is yet another new variant in the airline.

Iberia needs to FOCUS. They dont need yet another fleet size. They need to reduce the number of aircraft types and variants.

The beauty of a single fleet airline is that any aircraft can operate any route. If IB buy 2 A340-600's and one goes tech... they are in trouble.. If they add a few more -300's they have a dozen to choose from. Iberia already has the worst punctuality record in Europe, and its not through over use of its aircraft!

I propose Iberia should focus on the following:

A319
A320
A321

A340-300

Nothing more, nothing less.

On routes with excess demand, add a frequency or raise yields. Do not buy an aircraft for one particular market. The A340 is not a profitable short haul aircraft. Air France prooved that with the A330 losses when they operated it on domestics.

BTW until recently IB operated


Short Haul
DC9*
MD82
MD87
727*
737
757
767
A320
A321
A300

Long Haul
A340
DC-10 *
747

Cargo

DC-8

* = recently retired.

They are not a big carrier... Time for them to focus.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
cx340
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:40 am

Well. if its true, I hope they put those monsters in their MAD-MEX route! It is one of their most profitable and high on demand, it already has one daily 743 and I think an A340 three or four times a week.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Bestwestern

Wed Dec 12, 2001 12:45 am

>>>Iberia have announced that they are returning the A321 in favour of keeping the 757 - which was ordered for the canarias markets. For me not a wise move...

If that is the case, I agree - giving up the 321 for the 757 seems to be not particularly smart. The 757 might however become a tool to connect secondary Spanish makets directly with for example the Caribbean or MIA - bypassing congested MAD. CU flew their IL62 into Vitoria for a time. In any case, the 321 should be retained, imho, to have greater flexibility on European routes.

>>>The beauty of a single fleet airline is that any aircraft can operate any route. If IB buy 2 A340-600's and one goes tech... they are in trouble.. If they add a few more -300's they have a dozen to choose from.

Taking 2-5 might be only the beginning. And the probability a 340-600 goes technical is certainly smaller that for a 20 year old 747. Those will have to be replaced at some stage in the not too distant future. And if IB need an aircraft with a 747´s capacity (which they apparently do), the 340-600 is the only logical solution if you already have the 340-300. You just can´t replace 1 747 with 1.66 340-300s, especially on slot restricted airports.

>>>I propose Iberia should focus on the following:
A319
A320
A321
A340-300
Nothing more, nothing less.

IF Iberia manage not to become a niche carrier the gap between the 321´s 186 setas and the 340-300´s 277 seats is too big. The 757/767 family in all its 5 variants would neatly fit in there.

>>>The A340 is not a profitable short haul aircraft.

Exactly, and that´s why you need a designated short/medium haul aircraft bigger than the 321 for trunk routes.

Daniel Smile


 
BestWestern
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 3:17 am

No Tenemos mas españoles aqui... Que piensan ellos sobre Iberia?

Iberia have no difficulty with Slots at Madrid, especially since they have a shuttle operation to Barcelona, with flights every twenty mins. When the AVE (high speed rail) is completed, this number of flights will drop considerably.

Demand on the Canary islands routes is very seasonal. From GDS schedules data IB have one A340 to TFS in operation on Dec 16th (thats it for the winter), as well as a weekly long haul via Tenerife. In Summer, They have two daily A340 operations. The profitability Golden rule is not to acquire fleet for the peak, but for the trough, and use yield management to make profits in the summer. Iberia (who will lose loads of cash this year) never remember this!

To benefit from the peaks in summer, they should
1. divert flights from business routes (that are quiet in July and August, such as BRU and DUS)
2. schedule a MAD-TFS-MAD between other long haul operations rather than leave them on the ground.
3. Raise utilization. IB have the second lowest fleet utilization of any major European carrier (after Alitalia)

Spain is crying out for proper competition on the domestic routes. Air Europa and Spanair need to merge to fight, and beat Iberia. It can't be difficult.






You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
767-332ER
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:19 am


No soy espanol, pero he visitado espana mucho!!!

As someone who has visited Spain many many times, and I have been a frequent flier on IB. I believe that IB should focus on this.

A346-Long-haul flights
A343-Long-haul flights (thinner flights)
763 Medium hauls and shorter heavier flights
757 Medium and shorter routes
A320/A319 Shorter routes, very thin flights


They should focus on that. The 767-300 fits very well with them, but the A321 is a ridiculous aircraft to have there, specially after they ordered the 757, which they are very pleased with.
Spain does need another carrier, specially with all of the travel to the holiday destinations. Air Europa/Spanair, it is all up to you!!
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:08 am

Keep in mind that Iberia plans to lease three A380-800s from ILFC, most definitley for MIA and EZE.
a.
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:38 am

Hi:

I think that the new A340-600 will serve for routes to Buenos Aires and Mexico first, then will be added: Miami, Lima and maybe Caracas.

Best Regards,
RJ_Delta
 
User avatar
Fly-K
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:27 pm

I think IB is well on its way to become a competent carrier, much like AF has changed over the last few years, LH 10 years ago, and BA in the 80s. In time, their fleet will be standardized too.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
samspain
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RE: Iberia A340-600s?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:20 pm

Hi.. I have a question. When did IB decided to return/ or cancel orders of the A321?
And, weren't the 737s and 767s wet leased from Air Europa? In fact Iberia returned those planes a few weeks ago... IB used the 767 on the BCN-JFK leg (now cancelled) and MAD-GIG which I think has been upgraded to an A340...

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