LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:23 am

Next Thursday is D-day for DAT. If they don't have the necessary cash they'll stop operations.

Allthough I wouldn't be glad to see DAT go (I still think that DAT could survive as a pure intra-European airline) I think that we have to come to the conclusion that the chances of Mr. Lippens and DAvignon are going down day by day. They probably need a miracle to succeed.

First, last Friday a very large Belgian supermarket chain Delhaize was the first Belgian company to publically say that they won't invest into the airline (because it's not their core business). This move was followed by Interbrew (the third largest brewewry in the world) today when they confirmed that they won't invest (allthough they do say they may use the airline more than other airlines) as they feared opposition from shareholders and employees.

Next came the Financial Times which today had the following headline "Belgian companies 'bullied' on Sabena " . According to the article "Other companies complain of "being bullied" and say it would be hard to justify investing in the successor to a bankrupt airline at a time of cost-cutting elsewhere."

http://globalarchive.ft.com/globalarchive/article.html?id=011210000872&query=sabena

Finally this evening the Flemish government pulled their EUR 25mio out as the EU Commision did have some objections to the DAT-BIAC construction.

Regards
Laurens
 
planeguy
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:33 am

Miracle? Just scrap DAT. Let Ryanair be Belgium's flag carrier.
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:38 am

No way an irish airline can be Belgium's flag carrier!
I hope DAT will survive.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:40 am

I hope they'll survive too
 
Guest

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:48 am

Isn't this just what I've been saying for weeks?  Insane I agree with you, Laurens that DAT would probably be a reasonably efficient regional feeder airline. As I understand it, the primary reason why their bookings have been so low (apart from the abysmal service) is that very few people actually expect them to stay in business. This means that their lifeblood - cashflow - is severely depleted.

The companies that have said that they would invest are all companies with close connections to the Belgian government and/or the royal family; and there are persistent stories of senior businessmen being bullied into making investments (otherwise lucrative government contracts will either be withdrawn or not awarded in the first place) and illegal quasi-subsidies being offered by the government in the form of government guarantees or tax-offsets equal to the investments made.

The reality is that if the business plan was a good one, people would invest from all over Europe - if not the world. The fact of the matter is that few Belgians see it as a viable operation.

Like I said about Sabena months ago, let the sick old dog die with some honour.
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:49 am

I think DAT can survive if they concentrate on intra-European regional flights.

Long haul flights should only start if DAT has a big partner.

BUT government involvement should be limited to a minimum or we end up with a SN again...

 
Guest

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:55 am

Belgium doesn't need a flag carrier - let VG Airlines do that if Freddy's crazy enough to want to pee away €12.5m!
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:33 am

Seems like the Brussels Airport Company is going to invest in DAT. ... very bizarre..
 
Cpt. Caveman
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 4:24 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:42 am

Hello,

"DNG" Monday 10th of December
(Belgian news paper)

There is Flemish money for DAT-plus after new garanties:

The Financial Inspection, that watches the investments of the Flemish government, advised on the 13th of November in a negative way of a possible investment for DAT-plus.
But, there is a second advice, dating from the 7th of December.
The Flemish government was yesterday, again interested to finance 1 billion Belgian Francs for DAT.
We had garanties from the federal government, from minister-president Dewael, who had already asked Saturday, a 2 weeks delay before to decide.

DAT, announced Sunday the good news, that the flights are already for 40% full.
This was quickly gone "the good news", after the news that beer-giant Interbrew and Belgocontrol, that the air-movements above Belgian coordinates, not longer where interested.
The Premier had already personely announced the media, that the world's second brewery joined DAT.
This wasn't correct, what we already know.
Belgocontrol realised that it is a governments company, and for that reason coundn't join the contruction.
In mean-time two other candidates investers announced there interests.
Victor Hasson from the bankrupt company CityBird and businessman George Gutelman are joining DAT.
There are "10+" others who wants to follow this 2 men, this explained by Guy Verhofstadt the Prime-Minister.
Who those "10+" people are, wouldn't he not yet explaining.

Let's hope the BEST for DAT!!!

Regards  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cpt. Caveman

 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:48 am

'No way an irish airline can be Belgium's flag carrier!
I hope DAT will survive.'
What's the big deal if Ryanair became Belgiums 'flag carrier'?

 
pat
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2000 7:26 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 7:01 am


They just cannot be as their 're Irish...is that so difficult to understand ???

Moreover, a flag carrier has to be recognized as a fully "normal" carrier and not as a charter carrier which is the status of Ryanair in Belgium.

See the pic' now ?


Pat
 
Guest

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 7:55 am

What complete codswallop you're talking Pat!  Insane - Ryanair is a scheduled, not a charter carrier!

Belgium - along with most other EU countries - is too small to viably justify a flag carrier.

Capt Caveman - the problem is that the provision of guarantees by the Belgian government (as you've described will be provided to the Flemish regional government in exchange for BFr1bn) constitutes a government subsidy, which is illegal under EU law. I understand that the other 'investors' are only agreeing to 'invest' on the basis of similar illegal guarantees or tax offsets from the government.

Without those, they are not interested.

Loadfactors don't matter either - the key is yield. And from what I understand, DAT's losing money at a very rapid rate.
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 2:51 pm

Belgium - along with most other EU countries - is too small to viably justify a flag carrier.

I don't really agree, there's a huge market out of Brussels and therefore a flag carrier can be justified, but a smaller one than Sabena. In addition, Brussels central position within Europe and BRU airport’s accomodations are suitable for an ’hub and spoke’ airline. The problem in Belgium is not the size of the country but more the social costs and labor power that an airline will need to face. Unless someone find a clever business plan very soon, we will soon see foreign airlines take the market.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:06 pm

Capt Caveman: the second investigation by the Financial Inspection also revealed that the project is too risky to invest. Thus the flemish government decided that the possibility of a failure is too big. This is a very important insight in my view as this will also disqualify any investment by BIAC into DAT (the EU will block any investment with no clear return). Moreover, all investors have already said that they want to be sure they can write off any losses from the tax bill. Not an sign that the investors believe in the project.

Regards
Laurens
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: DAT: Interbrew

Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:19 pm

It seems the biggest shareholder of Interbrew would do the investment in DAT now instead of Interbrew itself.

No more coffee, Champagne or orange juice on your next DAT-flight. We will probably be drinking Stella Artois next time we fly DAT.

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
hb-iqj
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 8:43 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:37 pm

I received the following E-Mail from DAT.
I wonder that they are so large in giving so much points away. this doesnt show a very good future.

------------------------------------------------------
Third Week of Promotions !

For the third time in a row, dat offers you attractive prices to 28 European destinations!

You can book a ROUND-TRIP flight (taxes included) for:
Economy class up to and December 12th 2001 inclusive at only:
200 Euro (1)
Business class up to and December 31st 2001 inclusive at only:
500 Euro (2) + TRIPLE QUALIFLYER MILES !
Connecting Brussels with:

Berlin, Bilbao, Birmingham, Bologna, Bordeaux, Bristol, Florence, Geneva, Gothenburg, Hamburg, Hanover, Copenhagen, Lyon, Madrid, Manchester, Marseille, Milan, Munich, Newcastle, Nice, Oslo, Praague, Stockholm, Strasburg, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Vienna, Helsinki.

On top of that you can earn triple Qualiflyer miles as Qualiflyer member in Business Class on all 33 European destinations of dat (Barcelona, Rome, London Heathrow, Warsaw and the destinations mentioned above).

Contact your travel agency or call dat now on 00 32/2/723 23 23 for your reservations or click here for more details: http://www.dat.be/en/index_en.htm

Book online at : http://www.dat.be/en/book_en.htm


P.S. : 2 round-trip Business class tickets = 1 free Qualiflyer ticket.
Indeed, for every Business class ticket you purchase (for personal use), you receive 12.000 miles. You can have a Qualifier ticket starting from 20.000 miles in Economy class and 25.000 miles in Business class (Europe).


(1) Conditions for Economy Class tickets at 200 Euro: 1 night stay from Saturday till Sunday or 2 night stay during the week. Tickets are non-refundable, non-transferable and cannot be altered. Immediate payment is required. Maximum of 1 month at location. TRAVEL IS ALLOWED TILL MARCH 28th 2002.
Several restrictions are applicable – contact your travel agents or dat.

(2) Conditions for Business Class Tickets at 500 Euro: Tickets are non-refundable, non-transferable and require immediate payment. Changing the return flight is allowed. Maximum of 1 month at location. TRAVEL IS ALLOWED TILL MARCH 28th 2002. Several restrictions are applicable – contact your travel agents or dat.

If you no longer want to receive e-mails from dat, reply to this message using "unsubscribe" as subject
------------------------------------------------------

Also, I see all of you talking about DAT as a European regional airline.
I think that we need an airline that should arrive anywhere not just in Europe. Today to get from Brussels to anywhere you need to take a connection flight which is quiet annoying.

Think about that fellows.


hb-iqj

 
KENNY
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 2:14 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:37 pm

Posted by Planeguy
Miracle? Just scrap DAT. Let Ryanair be Belgium's flag carrier.

Ryanair??? never of my live!!!
They're Irish!!!

Posted by SN-A330
It seems the biggest shareholder of Interbrew would do the investment in DAT now instead of Interbrew itself.

No more coffee, Champagne or orange juice on your next DAT-flight. We will probably be drinking Stella Artois next time we fly DAT.

Regards, SN-A330



Lolz, Stella Artois on a plane, I'm going to like it more and more Big grin

I hope DAT can survive


 
D-aqui
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:11 pm

Since I have joined this forum and since the never-ending Sabena-DAT story began, I have repeated it over and over again: what we need out of Brussels is a reliable air-service to other European destinations.

Within the social and economical context that does exist in Belgium this does not seem to be the case: strikes, doubtful service etc. will cast a devastating spell on any successor airline connected with Sabena in the passengers' mind.

Furthermore the present lack in professionalism that I have encountered on at least my last flight with DAT ( see: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/670303/) has cooled down my sympathy for those who want to stay in their job and who are suffering from this major failure in Belgian economy.

In fact, it is a spiral dive with apparently no chance for recovery, to speak in aeronautical terms.

The industrial action announced by former Sabena staff during the European Council next Friday will further weaken Zaventem's and DAT's position in the European air-traffic market. In the long run, every carrier will consider twice to serve Brussles as there will always be a risk to be hit by some kind of 'unforseen events' that are outbalancing the advantages of fast air-travel. Would-be passengers will rather be looking for alternatives that are already looming on the horizon in the form of high-speed train services out of Bruxelles-Midi train station.

To sum it up: if the DAT solution does not work, give it up, beacause the market forces would sooner or later dash away any airline that has been created by bullying investors into an engagement that seems to be a no-win situation.

xxx
 
Cpt. Caveman
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 4:24 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:40 pm

Hello,

DNG, Thuesday 11th of December
(Belgian news paper)

DAT doesn't get the 1 billion Belgian francs from the Flemish government!

The Flemish government is not going to invest in the new airline DAT.
The promised 1 billion Belgian francs is going to BIAC (the airport exploitant).
They are going to investigate if this operation has nothing to do with hidden government support and that BIAC threathed all other airlines the same.
Davignon, the man behind the new DAT, couldn't laugh withit yesterday.
Everybody has to take his responsibility, he said at Dewael's adres.

DAT: Needs indeed A Miracle

Regards  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cpt. Caveman
 
DragonRapide
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:59 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:48 pm

1/ Indeed the Flemish Government isn't going to invest in dat but in BIAC.
2/ BIAC can do with that money whatever they want.
3/ Davignon is in the Board of Directors of BIAC.
Conclusion: BIAC will invest the Flemish money in dat.

D-AQUI, just for the record. I flew twice with dat last week. Once in Y and once in C. No difference with the former Sabena service.
 
FFlyer
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

No Miracles, Sorry!

Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:50 pm

Why do you think DL and other airlines are adding long-haul service to Brussels? Because they KNOW that there won't be a Belgian long-haul air service in the future.
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:19 pm

Dragonrapide, unfortunately the EU Commission isn't stupid and already said it will investigate this route very carefully. Moreover, what do you think all the other airlines at BRU will do once BIAC invests into DAT?

I think that the lawyers are going to make overtime.

BTW what will ahppen if the Flemish politicians block the EUR 25mio to BIAC aswell? As far as I know the Flemish government merely stated their intention to invest EUR 25mio in BIAC.

Regards
Laurens
 
DragonRapide
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:59 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:35 pm

Yes, you're right Laurens.
However I wanted to make the point since discussions have gone much further than what this topic is about.
Two things though:
1/ Do not underestimate the 'haute finance'
2/ Do never underestimate politics, even if our politicians are no the smartest around.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: No Miracles, Sorry!

Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:26 am

FFlyer, altough it would be nice to see if it was true. You are going to fast with saying that other airlines are adding longhaul services to BRU. Only DL so far has REstarted the JFK service, first flight to arrive 16/12. Wich is not an addition at all, they intended to REstart it in march anyway. So what are the airlines that ADDing more LONGhaul flights to BRU? You reply is based on nothing and o so typical these days in any tread about either DAT or Sabena. Now reply to something you know about!
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 2:40 am

DragonRapide, I never underestimate the politicians. Moreover as politics is almost the only thing that is behind DAT+. Maybe that's why some sort of DAT will remain (I even willing to believe that there may be a second bidder waiting tot ake over DAT). However, just as the Belgian politicians want to keep DAT alive there are other politicians who have the opposite goal.

Fortunately we know by tommorrow what will happen to DAT.

BTW I don't see any evidence of "haute finance" in the entire DAT case. It's very plain vanilla if you ask me.

Regards
Laurens
 
Guest

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 2:52 am

Laurens - definitely no sign of 'haute finance' - only the usual dirty political manoeverings, fraud and scandalous behaviour that one has come to expect from Brussels!  Insane  Pissed  Insane

Manni - don't you think that if BRU was such a viable market as DAT have claimed, there would be loads of long haul carriers trying to launch (or even relaunch) their services? The only new operation I've seen is Hewa Bora's L1011 and the DC10-15 leased from Electra operating between FIH and BRU!

The logical conclusion is, therefore, that BRU is not a viable market?
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 3:25 am

Ceillidh, moreover as USAirways left BRU after the demise of Sabena. Allthough CO increased capacity on the EWR-BRU route by replacing the B757 with the B767-200.

However, for intra-european flights there is a market (not large but still viable).

Oh yes manni, what do you mean with Delta only reinstated JFK sofar? They still fly to ATL ex BRU (or Amadeus is lying) and they haven't flown more (remember that the CVG route was operated by SN). Finally the collapse of SN was indeed the reason why they returned so soon from JFK. Moreover, why do you think KLM has 7 return flights (with F50, F70 and B737-300) and LH 8 dailies (some with A300s)? The answer: to make sure that there won't be a next Sabena.

Regards
Laurens
 
Cpt. Caveman
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 4:24 am

RE: No Miracles, Sorry!

Wed Dec 12, 2001 3:41 am

Hello,

-LJ-
Yes, we still have the Delta 125 "ATL-BRU-ATL" flight!
And the Delta 141 "JFK-BRU-JFK" flight is comming back as from the 16/12/01!

Regards  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cpt. Caveman
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: No Miracles, Sorry!

Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:10 am

LJ, I know that DL flies to BRU from ATL. What I mean by only reinstating JFK? FFlyer replys that many airlines have introduced new longhaul destinations out of Brussels and is mentioning the JFK flight from DL. What I'm saying is that it is not a new flight, they only started it sooner then expected. Apparently, I did not check it out yet but Ceilidh says so, there is some new African operator operating to BRU but that 's about it.

Ceilidh, It was FFlyer saying that many new longhaul destinations will be served by new airlines, jumping to take over Sabena's customers. If BRU is viable? For some longhaul destinations it certainly is, regardless by who it is served. First to come up in my mind are NRT, FIH, BOS, JNB, JFK.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:13 am

BTW LJ, Lufthansa operates as many as 28 daily flights out of BRU to various German cities.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:36 am

Yep Manni, you're right I should have said off course 8 daily FRA-BRU flights.

BTW Manni, doesn't the fact that no airline jumped in BRU just mean that there is no market out of BRU? If there was a market you would have seen some airlines like JAL or ANA to take over a route but they don't. Moreover, USAiways leaves BRU while SN is gone. To me it shows that airlines like AF, LH, KL and others have already taken the cherries out of the Belgian market and what's left is not economically viable.

Even if these destinations are viable it's the question whether DAT+ can exploit this in the short run. Most corporations sign get large deals with airlines and these are usually valid for a year or so. If the multinationals haven't waited they can't switch easily from the contracted airline to DAT anyway, thus DAT can't serve these passengers for at least a year. Moreover, DAT can never offer the FFP possibilties which LH, AF or KL can duie to the limit number of destinations.

Regards
Laurens
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:10 am

It is difficult to tell, these days, wether BRU might attract some new airlines. It is not the peakseason for bussines and tourist travel, there is the economic slowdown and then there is the aftermath of 11 september. Time will learn us a lot. In the long term I can see BRU being served by either JAL, ANA, Korean or Asiana. Asiana operated a 747 combi to BRU before. US Airways pulled out of BRU due to problems back home, they simply can not afford to invest in a new line. I doubt VG will ever take off, altough I would not mind it. If Neither VG or DAT will fly to US destinations, AA will almost certainly ad another flight. If DAT wants to survive they have to join an alliance and get rid of qualiflyer.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:31 am


DAT should not make the same mistakes as SN

BRU is only a regional airport & a small home market

No long haul Asian & American airlines are really interested in BRU. Most of them are part of alliance which operate hubs in FRA, AMS, CDG & LHR.
Their European partners can feed BRU if necessary.

the only role I see for DAT is a small Regional Jet airlines
which can join a big alliance like STAR or Oneworld...

 
Cpt. Caveman
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 4:24 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:53 am

Hey,

Excuse me, AirDD

I still think that BRU/EBBR is an International Airport!

In fact, we don't have regional airports in Belgian, there is no carrier flying from one to another city in Belgian!
So, in that case we can't speak about a regional airport, we do have smaler airports in Belgium!

We have:
Brussel Zaventem Airport (BRU/EBBR)
Charleroi Airport (CRL/EBCI)
Liège Airport (LGG/EBLG)
Antwerp Airport (ANR/EBAW)
Ostend Airport (OST/EBOS)

Regards  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cpt. Caveman

 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:02 am

AirDD, When I read your posts, I wonder if you know what you are talking about. You clearly show the lack of knowledge to participate in any topics regarding BRU, DAT or SN. All you do is replying with the same cliché over and over again. Looking at your profile I see that you are living in the US. Changes are big that you have not even been in BRU, or have flown with DAT or SN. I could be wrong offcourse.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:08 am

The thing I have senses throughout this whole Sabena/DAT saga is an overwhelming sense of patrioism to the point of ecomomic lunacy.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:12 am

quotes from AirDD,

"No long haul Asian & American airlines are really interested in BRU."

Guess Singapore, Delta, American, United, Continental are all stopping by at BRU to buy some beers and chocolates then?

"BRU is only a regional airport and a small home market"

...serving 23 million pasengers last year, Guess I had it wrong my whole life long, Belgium has not 10 but 100 million citizens.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:07 am

Manni,

What I meant to say that no new carriers are interested setting up long haul service to BRU.

BRU had 23 million pax ... 60% from SN and mostly transfer pax. It going to be hard keeping the same numbers of pax without SN hub & spoke transfer system.

I truly wish BRU would become more important for long haul flights, but without a big home carrier it is going to be tough.

AA didnt take over the SN flight from Dallas, although DFW is AA home. and loadfactors from AA ORD-BRU
have been just below 50 % even without the SN flight.

Dont know the NYC-BRU load factor but I think only CO flies there for the moment, and DL

USair ending their flight from Philadelphia-Brussels...
Yes, US is in a bad financial situation but they are starting a couple of new international flights from PHL.
If the flight to BRU was successfull it would not axed...

and you are wrong Manni, I am originally from Brussels and I have been on many SN-DAT flights from the USA & within Europe.
I wish BRU had more long haul flights.
I will be visiting Belgium this XMAS time but regretfully I didnt find any good flight connections from the US west coast to BRU.
So I bought a direct flight to AMS.
If VG Airlines ever flies from LAX-BRU, I will be the first pax on the first flight and I hope DAT concentrates on good intra-european flights without to much government involvement.

airDD


 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: DAT: Needs A Miracle

Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:04 am

The problem with BRU now is that it is surrounded by the hubs of the 4 largest airlines and airports in Europe. LH in particular has increased capacity to BRU and to a smaller extent BA, AF and KLM. I think it will be very unlikely that these airlines will allow DAT to succeed. BRU generates a lot of traffic, which means a lot more transfer traffic for BA, LH, AF, and KLM. DAT will need a lot of money to be able to compete with these 4 airlines and will likely have to suffer heavy losses in the first year of operations. Furthermore it will need to ally with one of the major alliances, which will probably not happen due to DAT's volatile position.

The airporot will end up as a "large" regional airport with mainly intra european flights operated by a wide variety of airlines and some intercontinental flights. I think it will be very unlikely to see some Asian, or American airlines to jump in and start serving BRU. Most of the customers of the big American and Asian airlines can conveniently transfer through AMS, CDG, FRA, and LHR to get to BRU.

Maybe VLM can be the new flag carrier of Belgium  Big grin

just my 2 cents

tripple 7

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