sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:36 am

Bombardier gives absolutely NO information about it on their website.

IIRC, NW is the only one to have ordered it (75 examples).

What the heck is this thing?

  • SFO
  •  
    RJ
    Posts: 192
    Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:28 am

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:51 am

    I believe that it is the 40 or 44 seat version of the CL-65. Comair received its first 40 seater on the 7th of December. It will go into service in January. It is the CL-65 with fewer seats; however, they did not change the seat pitch. They put in a large closet up front and one where row 13 is. It also introduces the new and improved passenger seat. (I hope that they are better than the current ones!) Other differences for Comair are the introduction of the CF-34-3B1 engines (Comair uses the -3A1 varient). With fewer seats (less weight) and more powerful engines, it will serve smaller markets. Look for EYW to be utilized by this plane. EYW has been approved and is in our Op Specs for the CL-65. Other rumors about the plane is that they could put rafts in the closets and certify it for overwater operations. That could be interesting......

    Hope this helps

    Happy flying!!!

    RJ
     
    azjubilee
    Posts: 3430
    Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:01 am

    It is the 44 seat version of the CRJ. The previous post is correct in that there is a closet to take up space for the 6 less seats. It is the same airframe etc...

    It is kinda odd that there is very little mention of it on the Bombardier website. NW has 75 on order and something like 150 options! Everyone is waiting in suspense as to who will operate all these a/c.


    AZJ
     
    bells
    Posts: 155
    Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:05 pm

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:17 am

    The reason there isn't more info on the website is that the CRJ440 is not being generally offered for sale. It's only available to certain customers under certain circumstances (ie when a large order is placed). The reason is that because it has fewer seats Bombardier have to sell it for a lower price than the standard CRJ though it is structurally identical.

    Bombardier figured this approach was cheaper than developing a 44-seat shortened derivative to counter the ERJ-140.

    The CRJ440 can be upgraded to 50 seats at a later date but the airline has to make an additional payment to Bombardier.
     
    bells
    Posts: 155
    Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:05 pm

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:18 am

    The reason there isn't more info on the website is that the CRJ440 is not being generally offered for sale. It's only available to certain customers under certain circumstances (ie when a large order is placed). The reason is that because it has fewer seats Bombardier have to sell it for a lower price than the standard CRJ though it is structurally identical.

    Bombardier figured this approach was cheaper than developing a 44-seat shortened derivative to counter the ERJ-140.

    The CRJ440 can be upgraded to 50 seats at a later date but the airline has to make an additional payment to Bombardier.
     
    sfointern
    Posts: 1104
    Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 11:48 am

    So on the 440, there is a closet taking the space of 6 less seats... but on the 40-seater, what takes up the other 4 seats? Another closet?

    Weird development...

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    cv640
    Posts: 843
    Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:59 pm

    Express I begins getting our first 44 seater in late January. It is as above the 50 seater with a larger closet and a 1000 pound less max takeoff weight. It was developed do to scope limitations with mainlien NWA. After Mesaba got the Avro's, NWA pilots worded their next contract to read that their commuters couldn't operate aircraft certified for 45 or more seats, not just seats removed, but a new certificate. They operate the same, same systems, same type rating, but different operating certificate, go figure. I do know we will have to do FAA proving runs and everything to get the OK to fly the plane in revenue service. Weird, but that's what they want. Oh yeah, NWA wants us to take a paycut to fly it, no chance of that happening though.
     
    azjubilee
    Posts: 3430
    Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Wed Dec 12, 2001 2:24 pm

    CV640... be complete with your message. Those 44 seaters you are receiving in Jan are not of the 75 seat order for 44 seaters. You know that you're bound to the scope for 50 seaters based on the NW narrowbody fleet. You'll be capped around 30, as the narrowbody fleet is now, therefore you're receiving these 44 seat planes in lieu of the planned 50 seater. It has still yet to be announced who will fly the batch of 75, CL440s.

    They want you to take a pay cut? YOU mean, a new pay rate for a 44 seat plane? or a cut to the contracts pay? Didn't you have a pilot meeting tonight or something?

    As for XJ... I want a better contract in June before I want 44 seaters on the property for expansion.


    AZJ
     
    cv640
    Posts: 843
    Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:43 am

    Yes, I have stated probably half a dozen times over the past 2 weeks that these are from the 50 seat order, due to the scope limitations with the NWA pilto contract. We have no idea who will get the 75 plane, 44 seat order and considering what NWA is asking in return for them I don't want them.

    They want us to take a 12% pay cut, cause it has 12% less seats. We could keep the same pay rate and get the 44 seaters for sure if we agree to a 2 year extension to our contract, not going to happen. We have the worst contract in the industry and isn't even up until 2005, plus it isn't even followed.

    My view is if they want the cheapest labor group, they have it. Even at the 50 seat rate, no one could fly these for less pay, even Mesa makes more and their pilot contract is up in the Spring.

    About the 44 seat order I think we will get the first batch and then they will try and play us against Mesaba with your negotiations and say, "come on, were going to give the rest to Express." There is no way one airline is getting all of them, that is a given, so I'd say its safe to say we will both be flying CRJ440s in a little over a year from now.

    The pilot meeting was definitely a trip. So many pilots showed up we couldn't find a room big enough for everyone. Some good issues were brought up, we will see how they are resolved. The 44 seaters that we get come in Mid-January, but they will need two weeks or so to prove to the FAA we can operate a new type, even though its the same plane. We start to loose 2 Saabs a month over to you guys in February, and will be down to 2-3 by next January, that could change.

    Good luck with your negotiations and fly safe.
     
    azjubilee
    Posts: 3430
    Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

    RE: What Is The CRJ440 Regional Jet?

    Thu Dec 13, 2001 2:30 am

    I've been talking to one of my buddies who was a tthe meeting last night. Sounds like things were quite fired up with PT around. Hope something good comes out of this for you guys.

    I only called for your clarification of the 44 seaters for the benefit of the ignoramuses that never ead the post before replying here. Also for the people who take things completely literally and then take it out of context.

    Just covering all the bases...

    See you on the taxiways. AZJ

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