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Manchester Planes

Thu Dec 13, 2001 11:41 am

I've seen the pictures on this website of pretty huge planes going in and out of MAN, like 744's, 777's, and others. I don't know anything about MAN, but I'd like to know why MAN is such a busy airport and is there that much of a market for that particular place?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Thu Dec 13, 2001 7:20 pm


MAN currently has around 18.5 million passengers a year, almost evenly split between scheduled services and charter services.

There are roughly 33 million people and 60% of manufacturer within 2 hours drive of MAN, and there is a railway station at the airport offering a wide range of destinations. By 2005, the Manchester tram system should be connected to the airport.

There is a stated aim of getting to be Britain's 2nd biggest airport by 2015 with around 40 million passengers, and the introduction of the 2nd runway in February 2001 eased runway capacity constraints: there were typically around 45 to 47 movements an hour on a runway designed for 45 per hour. We can now handle up to 65 per hour easily and long-term are aiming for 75 per hour.

There are 3 terminals:
T1 is tending to be the Star Alliance terminal
T2 was originally designed to be the long-haul terminal along with Air 2000 and Britannia but now has a fair number of European airlines (e.g Ryanair, Crossair, Air France) serving it.
T3 is the British Airways terminal and was originally called T1BA. As one might guess, anything and everything to do with BA operates from here (except the Aer Lingus flights!)

Both T2 and T3 are built to only half the planned capacity but the MAN board has delayed expansion plans for a couple of years or so after the effects of September 11th.

Most scheduled airlines tend to have no problem in filling aircraft (e.g. Continental & Delta around 90% loads, Malaysian 75%, bmi's long-haul around 70%, Air Mauritius in July/Aug 80%, Air Canada 86%) but appear to have difficulty attracting the "right" kind of customer.

One of the biggest hindrances for MAN is the LHR/LGW shuttle services where a certain airline seems to prefer sending people down to London rather than actually fly them from MAN instead!

There have been a few long-haul airlines announce their intention to withdraw their services over the past couple of months i.e Malaysian, Air Mauritius and Air Canada, but word on the street is the Malaysian may well be staying but instead of 747s on the route, they'll operate 777s.

Hope this is enough info for you at the moment!

David/MAN: 224 and counting
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2001 1:21 am

Just to add to David's info, Manchester also has a dedicated cargo terminal, with airlines including Dragonair and Cargolux flying even more 747's into MAN. PIA also use Manchester as a stop off for their transatlantic operations from Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to New York and Toronto. British Airways' only long haul route outside of London also flies between Manchester and New York daily using a 767-300. Emirates are also a key user of Manchester operating A330's and sometimes 777's, with their daily Dubai service looking as if it will go double daily next year.


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DEM
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:11 am

Just remembered Air Jamaica start twice weekly to MAN ss=oon and maybe, BWIA as well.  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:34 am


Top 10 long-haul destinations overall in 2000, with increase over 1999

SFB 285208 -0.54%
MCO 285047 20.05%
JFK 232983 5.29%
YYZ 191367 9.51%
EWR 181427 14.04%
ATL 170493 7.59%
DXB 169010 29.83%
SIN 140493 9.10%
ORD 130909 6.00%
HKG 87394 11.44%

Long-haul scheduled routes

JFK 232737 5.32%
EWR 181427 14.04%
MCO 177351 23.34%
YYZ 170519 126.71%
ATL170493 7.59%
DXB 169010 29.83%
SIN 140493 9.10%
ORD 130909 6.00%
HKG 87394 11.44%
PHL 77216 !DIV/0!
KUL 75698 140.75%
KHI 63056 5.71%
ISB 61930 -32.89%
YVR 54221 #DIV/0!
LHE 41224 18.76%
MRU 14295 8.64%
LXR 8068 272.14%
CAI 2829 -12.82%

Or take a hike to http://fly.to/northwest-spotters for infomation. And before anyone says anything, updates will happen once I get a spot of serious free time and not the odd little hour or two that I seem to be getting at the moment!

David/MAN
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:47 am

manchester could support the following long-haulers:

North America
AA 763 ORD
AC 762 YYZ
BA 763 JFK
BD 332 BOS
BD 332 ORD
BD 332 IAD
CO 764 EWR
DL 772 ATL
JM 343 KIN/MBJ
NW D10 DTW
US 333 PHL
VS 343 LAX
VS 343 MCO

Africa
MK 767 MRU
MS 320 CAI
VS 343 JNB

Middle East/Gulf
EK 772 DXB
LY 738 TLV
QR AB6 MUC/DOH
RJ 313 AMS/AMM
SV 772 AMS/JED/RUH

Asia
CX 343 HKG
HY 752 TAS
MH 772 KUL
NH 772 NRT
PK 743 ISB/KHI/LHR/JFK
SQ 744 AMS/SIN
T5 752 ASK

.....i know its a bit ambitious, but im hoping for a few of the above!!




 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 8:24 am

The weekly Egyptair CAI/LXR run should have a few 777s from next year (probably down to the Hadj flights - speaking of which Egyptair will operate Hadj specials as well as Yemenia and Royal Jordanian).


Long-term long-haul aims:

JNB - South African? Though it's more likely to be bmi (2 weekly)
MIA/LAX/JFK/DFW all by AA (all daily)
ORD extra daily by AA
BOM/DEL by Air India or Indian Airlines (at least 3 weekly - bilateral needs to be torn up)
BAH by Gulf Air (2 or 3 weekly)
BGI/POS by BWIA International (2 weekly)
CVG by Delta (daily)
YYZ by bmi (5 weekly to daily)

Can't envisage either BA or Virgin bothering with MAN except through codeshares!

Timeframe: 2 to 3 years

David/MAN: 222 and counting
 
Cyprus-Turkish
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 8:37 am

Which airlines serve Manchester now? Both scheduled and charter?
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 8:52 am


Haven't been to MAN for a long while, so of the top of my head:

Scheduled

British airlines

BA, BACitiExpress, Loganair, Manx Airlines, bmi, bmi regional, Eastern Airways, Aurigny, KLMuk, Monarch and Air 2000.

non-British

Air France, Luxair, Aer Lingus, Ryanair, SAS, VLM, City Airlines, Lufthansa, CSA, Malev, Finnair, DAT, Cyprus Airways, Air Malta, Kibris Turkish, Turkish Airlines, Olympic, Iberia, Crossair, Sun Air of Denmark, Skyways Sweden, Portugalia, Austrian, Delta, American, USAirways, Malaysian (until Feb), Air Mauritius (until Jan), Singapore Airlines, Turkmenistan Airlines, PIA, Egytair. (Air Canada to restart in April)

Charter:

Britannia, Monarch, Air 2000, European Air Charter, Airtours, JMC, Excel Airways, Helios, LTE, Air Europa, Futura, Iberworld, Spanair, Air Malta, Eurocypria, American Trans Air.

If I remember more, I'll post them!

David/MAN
 
Cyprus-Turkish
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:17 am

David/MAN

That is not Kibris Turkish- It is Cyprus Turkish Airlines pls.

Regards

Cyprus-Turkish


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EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:27 am

What carriers will be at Terminal 2 on Tuesday evening? When will be the best time to go on that evening (dec 18th?)

Thanks

Dan
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:17 pm

From what I know,
Terminal 2 tends to be relatively quiet in the evenings, carriers that have flights then will be Ryanair, Air France, Air 2000, Britannia and possibly PIA in the early evening. Best time to go is in the mornings when you get all the long haul carriers, but if your limited to the evenings, I'd say from around 4pm onwards in my personal opinion.
Hope this helps,
DEM
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:25 pm

Well, i am there in the morning too, but i want a timed exposure from the T1 car park in the evening, of course i can go in the morning, but i'd rather just take photographs from my hotel room and the vewing gallery at the Radisson SAS.

Regards

Dan
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 4:51 am

just pulled up a few photos of our christmas wish!!


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Photo © Florian Kondziela



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Photo © Thomas Fischer



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Photo © Arthur Yu



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Photo © Jason Taperell



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Photo © Sven De Bevere



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Photo © Colin K. Work



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Philippe noret



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Photo © Mark Stanton



Merry Christmas!
 
gkirk
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RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 5:51 am

Air Jamaica starts in June.
Gulf Air would be daily if they started MAN-BAH.
ANA is a possibility via???
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:10 am

fantastic to hear about JM at MAN.

Gulf Air, difficult one, firstly, GF are not allowed to fly to Bahrain from Manchester, not sure of the reason why, but, thats why they had to fly to Abu Dhabi the first time they tried MAN. Secondly, the service would not be daily, it would possibly start at 2 or 3 times a week, via say CDG, FRA or MXP, and in time, should it prove popular, maybe become non-stop.

ANA could start a non-stop Tokyo service, and codeshare with BD, both being star alliance partners. 2 times weekly with a 772ER, rising to 3 times weekly, possible upgrade to 744.
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:13 pm

All of this Japanese talk is pretty speculative. The numbers for MAN-Japan would not sustain a service, and the market to Japan is dead at the moment (no BA in KIX, LHR-NGO gone this winter, no ANA on KIX-LHR).

Annual MAN-Japan figures are around 20,000 per annum - make that work with 2 777s per week (and the Japanese refuse to use 2 engined aircraft over Russia).

Please be a little more realistic rather than just talking about spotting pipe dreams.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:27 pm

So Billy, the market for MAN-Japan's not big enough for a 2 weekly 777 service but somehow or other we can have 8 flights a day between LHR and the Tokyo airports. Methinks you are talking from where the sun don't shine.

Which year's interpretion of the market are you talking about? I guess you've never heard of the principle that a new service will actually generate business so we'd have that 20,000 PLUS those who transfer at AMS, CDG, FRA, etc PLUS any new business.

When Malaysian started here in MAN, it did impact on the LHR figures for the first 3 or 4 months; subsequently, both LHR did rise and, hence, the total market rose. All we need is airlines to remove their rose-coloured spectacles and instead of adding flights ad nauseum to LHR do it to the regions so that the whole country benefits.

Lastly, one suspects Billy is a BA "bean-counter" who doesn't want anyone to fly long-haul from the regions as it would be more lucrative for them to shuttle people southwards rather than serve the local markets.

David/MAN: 220 and counting
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:34 pm

totally David, he's talkin outta his cake hole! Manchester-Japan has been on the cards for years, and its about time it was given a go. In fact, i now think a more frequent service than twice a week, say 8 times a day might be better!!

And whats this about twins over russia, never knew that. What routing, in that case, does the AF 772 to HKG, PEK and SEL take, also the CZ 772 AMS-PEK, and not to mention CA 762 ARN-PEK and SVO-PEK?????
 
Kirstey
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:56 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:22 am

MAN will always be the UKs 3rd Airport. What it lacks is closeness to the business centres (ie London and the South East). Manufacturing is good for cargo, but not for passengers. LGW and LHR are close to most of the UKs tertiary/quaternary industry. Which is where the money is.
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:47 am

Kirstey,

OK, manufacturing is good for cargo but not for passengers. For a start, the north of england is not some industrial heartland anymore, its full of tertiary industries now, and with that comes people! Manchester has a huge catchment area, covering Scotland,Wales, and the north of England to the Midlands. Theres no reason as to why Manchester cannot become the UK's second airport, a northern hub. Its got two runways and room to expand, which will become very attractive to businesses and airlines in the future. Manchester is becoming an international city, attracting investment from all over the world. The Commonwealth games will increase Manchester's image as a world city and show that their is life north of Birmingham!
Manchester Airport has alot going for it, don't write it off yet!

DEM
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
757man
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:59 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:49 am

I still don't think people should write off a MAN-Japan service. Why wouldn't it do well? I wouldn't judge how well a service is doing until it's been up and running for 12 months.

Time will tell, but I'm sure MAN will get a service to Japan one day.
 
ek-a380
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:11 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:54 am

I would agree, don't write off Manchester in a hurry, I have travelled from London Heathrow which is not only a mostrosity but a tip inside out and also from London Gatwick which is nothing special.

Manchester has got a lot going for it and will become the UK's 2nd airport!

I dont see the likes of Emirates thinking of doing a double daily from London Gatwick but there are plans for a Manchester one - that says it all really!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:05 am

I belive Billy actually, I think there is more chance of a service to China than Japan from MAN.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:10 am


Anyone else note that LGW was down around 20% last month compared to November 2000! If more airlines swap LGW for LHR, it won't be such a far-fetched idea that MAN will overtake LGW before 2015.

Anyway, the good news is the the bmi transatlantic flights are doing remarkably well at the moment i.e. full!

David/MAN: 220 and counting
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:42 am

Maybe NCL will be biggest in...err,m 100,567 years???  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:20 pm

I seem to have actually struck a raw nerve here by injecting an element of realism to what I thought was a discussion and not an 'I love Manchestr orgy'.

Cathay toughed MAN out and it didn't work. As conspiracy theorists, you will no doubt believe this is due to extreme pressure from BA. As no one knows, can we assume that CX actually also lost a fair bit of money? If they were making money, then there is no doubt that they would have stayed.

Some of you do not read what I write. The Japanese do not fly twins to Europe. This is a policy that even the irrational dreams of planespotters cannot overcome.

If Japan has been on the cards for years, (whose cards) then why did this not happen during the boom years of the mid/late nineties? Now that the market to Japan is a disaster (leisure traffic down 20% from Japan, KLM annouces the end of Nagoya flights today) who is prepared to pick up this little gold mine? Where are the Japanese flights to DUS, BRU, ARN, TXL, ATH?

I am delighted to see other airlines prosper at MAN, but they have a market to serve. If there is no market (or a very little on) then you cannot fill a plane with wishful thinking. MAN, like any airport, is not due anything.

However, they will probably keep their AC 767-200 service next summer, though they are in talks with BMI about them doing the route with the spare A330.

Thank God I do not work for BA and I do not count beans. Thanks for the moral support GKirk.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:48 pm


Billy

I'm sure CX would have prospered more if they offered a non-stop flight, not necessarily daily but 2 or 3 times a week. Even making it a BA codeshare flight would have been better than making the LHR shuttle routes codeshared.

David/MAN

 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:16 pm

Assuming that the market does not do anything too severe, then I think MAN will get the non-stops. However, they will not be daily. BA codeshares will depend upon whether they are allowed in the air service agreement with China and the SAR.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 9:36 pm

Just heard CI are starting a freighter service to MAN next year, what a/c will they use?? 744F??/

Mmmm....didnt I say above somewhere that a route to China would be ahead of Japan??? I didnt say pax route though did I ???  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 9:38 pm

You might also see scheduled Fedex Airbus 310s operating to CDG (over and above any of the maintenance contracts). Full routing to be decided.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Manchester Planes

Tue Dec 18, 2001 9:42 pm


Having just looked at the CAA data for September, the LHR-HKG route was down 1% on last year despite no MAN service! How many CX flights were affected by the strike?

Other "interesting" bits and pieces are (all based on September last year):

KUL: up 14% to just under 8,500 passengers - average of 327 per flight (81% loads)
DXB: down 4% to 14,000 passengers - average 234 per flight (?% loads- need to see breakdown of aircraft!)
MRU: up 35% to just under 1,900 passengers - average 237 per flight (82% loads)

David/MAN

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