FFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:49 am

Do you think that the aviation industry is really something that still has to keep the status of a national bride? Why? Most of the other major industries are nowadays more or less global, the home country of each company does not play a major role. I know about the history and regulation, but - does it have to be that way? It is just one industry among others. The jelous flag-waving hurts the real businesslike airlines.

Let the consolidations happen! Governments, keep your hands off! It would not really make a difference for a country (like Belgium) if there would not be an own flag-carrier. In many cases, the ones to suffer, are the tax-payers.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:51 am



A national bride? I guess I never thought of it that way.  Big grin
 
teahan
Posts: 4990
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:56 am

Hello,

Yes we certainly do, just look at Swissair, the old Swissair that is, and what is represented. Few people abroad could ever realise the impact Swissair had on Swiss people, that Swissair to Swiss people was more than just an airline. It carried the Swiss flag on the tail and along with the values and beliefs of all Swiss people. The day Swissair went bankrupt, the wings of Switzerland were clipped.

(ok, maybe I am being too sentimental, my honest belief is that every country needs a flag carrier, but that flag carrier should no be protected, tough one, isn't it?)

jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
FFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

Formula 1!

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:15 am

Several people here follow F-1. I'm quite a lone wolf here in the U.S. in that respect.

I think Formula 1 is more interesting than Civil Aviation.

Sorry about non-topic. Just anxiously waiting for the coming season...
 
Cyprus-Turkish
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:37 am

I was so curious about this for a long time. Does US have a flag carrier? US Airwyas? United? AmericanA? Are any of these national airlines?
Regards.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:42 am

There is no offical US flag carrier, airlines are a private industry in the USA........for many years, Pan AM was considered the "unoffical" US flag carrier due to its large international presence.

The time for flag carriers has come and gone.

I am most upset about the SN/DAT situation, but even if the new DAT does not materialize, BRU will survive and other carriers will come in to offer the service that BRU needs and requires. While some flag-carriers, in the past, were a source of national pride, no one in Belgium was proud enough of Sabena to fly with them if there was another choice or a different airline was offering a lower fare.
 
FFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

None In The U.S.!

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:45 am

No, all private businesses, could go bust any given day. The only time the government has given $'s for any of them was now after 9/11. Pan Am used to have a kind of unofficial flag-carrier status based on the history - but not in reality.

There is a national passenger railroad company, Amtrak. It has always lost money - and today its quite possible that the government will shut the financing and that would be the end of it. A proof of the efficiency of government operations..??
 
caribb
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 12:51 pm

Do we need them - no. Do people want them - yes. Many companies represent countries abroad but in true reality they are just "out there'. People actually fly on airlines and arrive in countries with their flags on the tail of the jet they are in.. In a foreign land seeing "your airline" can be stir up emotions ranging from relief to pride.. or embarassement depending on the country and airline  Smile

In small countries an airline might be the most visible corporate entity (if not the only well known entity) they have that "puts them out there on the world stage". In the US there are more large cariers than any other nation so what's one more or one less.. however, if I suggested American Airlines should change it's name to XYZ Global Airlines (or even Oneworld Air) and change it's primary colours to green and grey I would bet many people would strongly object citing AA's reputation as the "national symbol" of the USA on the world's air routes.. look what happened to BA when they moved away from the Union Jack and to the World Tails look..

Logic might say end the phenomena but national pride or patriotism regardless of nation will probably keep it there somehow.
 
BH346
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 1:07 pm

Anyway, I don't think the US Airlines that have a larger international presence shouldn't get the honors of being the flag carrier.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 1:38 pm

BH346: Huh  Confused I'm sorry, I'm always confused by double negatives. Are you saying that those with a large international presense should or should not get the honors?? I think I read somewhere that the US Government considers American, United, Delta, Northwest, Continental, and US Airways to be our flag-carriers. It means nothing, though; it's purely symbolic in this case.
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 1:45 pm

I mean those airlines shouldn't get those honors considering their terrible reputations.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Sun Dec 16, 2001 2:06 pm

Thanks for the clarification, BH346. I agree with you on that count. The United States doesn't need designated flag-carriers in the first place. Any US airline flying will have the flag on its tail, so, if it's going international, it'll be carrying the flag, and therefore representing the USA, whether the government says so or not. How is an Alaska Airlines plane in Mexico not representing the USA, while a Continental plane in Britain is?
 
Guest

RE: Do We Need Flag-carriers?

Mon Dec 17, 2001 2:17 am

Other than political considerations, which have always been a serious hinderance to the ability of the airline industry to shape itself like any other business, the argument for each country having its own flag carrier is no stronger than the argument for each one having its own OS or its own car maker.

In fact, Scandinavian Airlines is proof that a multinational airline can have its merits. SAS' market power is greater than would have been the sum of three international flag carriers -- one each for Sweden, Norway and Denmark -- combined. Its ability to bridge three nations to each other and the rest of the world gives it a stronger market presence, better buying power and helped make itself a more attractive alliance partner.

SAS was a pioneer in this area, but more multinational carriers will follow. Europe, with a few strong flag carriers flanked by a multitude of weak ones, is overdue for consolidation. Latin America has been taking steps of its own with the growth of the TACA and LAN groups. Once the ball is rolling, we'll probably see more small carriers combining to form multinationals in other parts of the world.

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