777D
Posts: 285
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Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:06 am

With United reducing or eliminating some service on the west coast (i.e. Shuttle) I assume some airlines are looking at the possiblity of starting service. I would like to see Delta step in with some 737-800 and move passengers up and down the coast bypassing SLC.

Also is Delta considering of re-starting service Asia via PDX? Could be a good time with the downturn for UAL and steal some passengers from them??

Any thoughts from the Delta fans........
 
exusair
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:26 am

PDX is a done deal for DL. Matter of fact, that deal is OVER. Asia will not be revisited via PDX.

It would be nice if DL installed DL Express in LAS. They have a fleet of 20 a/c collecting dust in the desert, and several hundred furloughed pilots that would love to fly in/out of LAS.

Ideally, LAX would maje a great home for DL Express. Running a shuttle to SFO every hour, and every other hour to LAS. LAS service to SEA, SFO, SAN, ABQ, PHX, DEN, PDX. OAK, SMF, SJC, ONT.

Revisiting SJD, ACA, MZT, GDL, SEA with 737-800's from LAX would be nice to see too.

Part of the failure of the LAX-NRT/NGO flights were over reliance on o/d traffic, and not enough on connecting traffic, or what little there was.

Perhaps we will see Comair out in LAX one day in the near future competing with Skywest and American Eagle.
 
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lindy field
Posts: 2938
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:29 am

I too would like to see more of Delta on the west coast but it is unlikely. PDX is no longer a trans-Pacific hub; in fact, Delta isn't offering much trans-Pacific service at all. I think there's only a flight from ATL to Tokyo. Delta will ramp up its code-sharing with Korean in the next few months as well.

Actually, I think Delta will shrink out west. More and more CRJs are flying out of SLC. Just look at destinations like Oakland and San Jose....

Delta is also much weaker in LAX than it was about five or six years ago. It dropped a good share of its LAX flights and later dropped its commuter service from LAX offered through Skywest (now only operating for United).

I think the only airline you'll see increasing west coast service will be Southwest, and you won't see too much of that because they sense a bigger prize in the vacuum created by the disappearance of Metrojet. United will probably build back some of its west coast service eventually...
 
Tbird
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:35 am

Greetings:

"Perhaps we will see Comair out in LAX one day in the near future competing with Skywest and American Eagle."

I personally don't think you'll see Comair competing with Skywest. Skywest has an affiliation with Delta at Delta's SLC Hub. Delta would be competing against themselves.

Thanx
Tom
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:41 am

DL's code is not on any Skywest flights intra California. UA has their code on those flights.

Skywest is operating in/out of DFW on behalf of DL. Anything is possible at this point in the DL Connection system.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:57 am

UA actually announced addl flights today from LAX to SAN/CCS.

I didn't think that UA was reducing westcoast service, just converting UA Shuttle to UA mainline.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 6:04 am

United to Colorado Springs and San Diego will be/is on United Express.


>>Ideally, LAX would maje a great home for DL Express. Running a shuttle to SFO every hour, and every other hour to LAS. LAS service to SEA, SFO, SAN, ABQ, PHX, DEN, PDX. OAK, SMF, SJC, ONT.

Just a hunch, but any airline that would propose the above scenario would get clobbered by Southwest.
 
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lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 6:35 am

Here's that press release from United.

CHICAGO, Dec. 17, 2001 – United Airlines (NYSE: UAL) today announced it will begin offering three daily nonstop flights between Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and Colorado Springs, and will boost its number of daily flights between Los Angeles and San Diego. This news comes just a week after United announced it was reinstating a fourth daily flight between LAX and Honolulu.

The flights between Los Angeles and Colorado Springs begin on March 5, 2002 and will be operated by United Express carrier Skywest with the 50-passenger Canadair Regional Jet (CRJ). The CRJ carries passengers in a two-by-two seating arrangement; every seat is an aisle or window, with no middle seats.

Starting February 15, 2002, United Express will fly an additional five times a day between Los Angeles and San Diego, bringing the daily number of flights between those markets to 22.

“Los Angeles continues to be a strong and viable hub for United Airlines,” said Mark Liberman, regional vice president – North America. “As Americans return to air travel, we continue to look for opportunities to build our service in Los Angeles.”

As of March 5, United and United Express will have a total of 259 daily flights from LAX, 13 more flights than they have today.

United Airlines offers nearly 1,650 flights a day on a route network that spans the globe. News releases and other information about United Airlines can be found at the company’s website, www.united.com.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1812
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 6:49 am

I am in Oregon and from what i see as a loss from UAL is a gain but not from DAL. Im talking Horizon Air baby, They are flying CRJ700 and Dash 8 Q400s they are expanding greatly, And UALs skywest (UAExpress) division is also expanding were united has left its Shuttle program, Also UAL has been offering its Air Wisconsin service to Oregon for some time and i would like to see that expand to Portland, Oregon. DALs services arent really highly avable currently were Shuttle used to fly (The Great North West) besides like i said theres just to many airlines in line above DAL (skywest, Air wisconsin, Horizon etc) I think UAL's game plan is to use their Express division as a shuttle on a smaller market place, Because there were so many routes that could have used a shuttle if the plane was smaller.
 
nonrevman
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:10 am

It seems that the West Coast flights are not that profitable with all of the low fare competition from Southwest and America West. I agree that the only possibility that Delta would expand in the West would be with DLX. Even that does not seem likely. Right now, it looks like mainline is going to maintain a moderate position in SLC and concentrate on the transcon routes. As for North-South flights along the West Coast, I just do not see it happening.
 
picarus
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:51 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:23 am

Hate to sound like a broken record, but when DL gave up the West coast several years ago, it pretty much gave up the market permantly. Personally, I was extremely unhappy to see the huge reduction in service and the dismantling of the LA hub inherited from Western. Southwest is way too entrenched at LAX, OAK, and and to a lesser extent SJC, for anyone to mount any serious challenges.

Alaska serves its niche extremely well on the coast, and United...well, who really know's United's strategy these days?
 
777D
Posts: 285
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 11:05 am

Well there goes my thoughts for Delta. I would hate to see them walk away from this market witout any type of challenge to the other carriers.

There is so much that Delta can do with ATL, SLC, CVG, JFK and DFW. A west coast presence would be a blessing for the travelers. Anyways thanks for your thoughts.

Regards.......




 
kwbl
Posts: 423
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RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 12:18 pm

As much the eternal optomist that I am, I do not see Delta establishing much more presence than what they have now. I think in retrospect, the dismantling of the "hub" (I use that term loosely because i think they could have done more here) at PDX was premature. They would have an uncongested airport with major opportunities to expand-there is a PDX to Asia market but it does need to be supplemented by connecting traffic. I think DL was poised to be a major player in the pacific but without a west coast hub, I do not think they can do that. If they would have held on (certainly would not have hurt based on what the routes did once they were moved to NY or LA), I think there would be a stronger argument. However, I sure would love to see DL back strong in PDX and the west.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:00 pm

I see that in January Delta increases its 3 times weekly LAX SFO service to Daily

357 #DL 435 LAXSFO-2050 2212 738 0
EFF 13DEC DIS 31DEC
DLY #DL 435 LAXSFO-2050 2212 738 0
EFF 01JAN

Like thats going to create a boom in traffic!
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
2cn
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:04 pm

Maybe, hopefully, increasing the flights back to daily will lead to increasing it back to two or three flights to and from a day at least.
 
jahckass
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:04 pm

AA is adding flights LAX to SMF and OAK using rj's
UA downgraded SJC LAX flights from 737's to RJ's

wouldnt be surprised to see AA add RJ's to SJC ONT and BUR
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 1:29 am

Of all the "majors" that might expand in the West, I'd look at AA as the most likely candidate to fill in where UA left off. AA is itching to increase their LAX presence (at the expense of United), and they've had this on-again, off-again relationship with SJC. I believe they are the #1 carrier out of SNA already.

AA and UA have been battling at LAX for a few years, and it looks like with the additional Terminal space their purchase of TWA bought them, AA has the room to expand.

Just my $.02
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 1:49 am

I did not realize AMR had a large presence in LAX.

I realize they have some international flight from the LAX, SJC and SEA. SEA will be shut down early JAN '02 so that leaves LAX and SJC with west coast INT flights.

With UAL scaling back some service there are passengers and freight that is available for other carriers.

I thought when AMR purchased Reno Air that they would increase there North-South routes on the west coast, but that did not happen.

I believe Alaska Airlines has a great product but once again competition is a must in a capitalist society.

Perhaps I should start my own airlines for the west coast like JetBlue as my blue print? It would work and work well......Any takers?? My fleet would be an......
A319, I believe it has a bigger cargo doors for extra revenue........

Just my two cents......





 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:36 am

777d, jetBlue is the taker. They are planning a lot of intra-West routes out of LGB. Denver, Oakland, Seattle, etc. In addition to trans-cons (FLL, JFK, IAD, maybe a few others).
a.
 
woodsboy
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:59 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:49 am

Honestly, I dont know why anybody would try and base a shuttle or "express" operation out of LAX, it is such a mess there, whether you are arriving via air or vehicle you either have to park 10 miles away or be in a holding patern for 40 minutes before you land. It just doesnt seem to be a conducive environment for any kind of operation where quick turnaround is essential.

I am surprised that Alaska Airlines was mentioned only in passing since they really have the strongest presence on the West Coast, not including the high frequency shuttle services which they dont have in Calif. to any extent. At any rate, if you want to get up and down the West Coast, Alaska Airlines in probably your best choice- that or Southwest.

American DID buy Reno for their West Coast slots in places like SJC and SNA, the clearly werent interested in Reno's aircraft, employees or other assets. So, thir recent moves to reduce (or was it totally leave) SNA seems strange. Alaska Airlines cant fly enough planes into SNA, its a very popular LA area destination and those flights are always full!

I could see Delta contracting SkyWest for some N-S connectivity say from SEA and PDX to SJC, OAK, SFO and LAX. I fly from Anchorage on Delta (since they dropped Fairbanks on Nov. 1st) to SLC and then on to either SJC or SFO. If you leave around midnight from ANC, you arrive at 6am in ALC and catch the 7:45a flight to SFO or SJC you actually get there sooner that taking the Alaska Airlines flight from ANC-SEA and connecting to SFO. I would also love to see DL operate an RJ from FAI-ANC-SEA/SLC since they cut the FAI-ANC service that use to be operated with a 757.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

My Airline For Competition....

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:53 am

Dang it, cut off at the pass..........but I know my idea would work!!! A319 fleet up and down the coast, maybe A320s and A321s for transcon flights and perhaps if I feel lucky throw in a hawaii flight from the west coast. It would work!! Competition for the other carriers......

There are plenty of pilots, f/a, mechanics, and etc that would jump at this opportunity to start from the ground floor........based out of Seattle.......

My two cents worth........


 
cv640
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 3:01 am

I'd agree that AA probably wants to pick up more of the West Coast flying then any of the big carriers. The problem is with all the money they are loosing right now, plus competition from SWA and Alaska, it would be extremely tough. If they an turn things around relatively quickly, look for them to make a move out there, otherwise it'll soon be all SWA and Alaska for sure.

RJ service may soon even have to be cut as United recently informed their commuters to start defering some order soon as they are rapidly approaching their scope limitations.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 3:12 am

If there are only two airlines that dominate the west coast, Alaska and Southwest then we are in trouble. They both serve their markets well, but to have only two carriers would not be sufficient for competition.

None the less, they have a better product than UAL. UAL only reason why they started Shuttle was because they were losing passengers to Southwest. They did not create the low-fare arm of UAL for the benefit the public, but lock passengers into flying UAL with miles and rewards so they have to fly UAL. Now that Shuttle is shut down, what are those people who relied on UAL Shuttle, have miles what do they do? There must be a huge amount of travelers out there with miles that cannot use them as they have planned before UAL shut down Shuttle. If I am right they can use them on Delta?

I still believe their is a market for another carrier and according to MAH4546 looks like there will be an excellent carrier filling that vacuum. Jetblue to the rescue......








 
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lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 3:23 am

Let me give you all an idea of what west coast service is like from San Diego:

OAK--Southwest 733s, etc.
SFO--United 737s/A320s/etc.
LAX--United Express EMB-120s
--American Eagle Saab 340s
SJC--Southwest 733s, etc.
American MD-80s
SMF--Southwest 733s
PDX--Alaska MD-80s, 734s
SEA--Alaska MD-80s, 734s,
Los Cabos--Alaska

No service to BUR, ONT, FAT, Bakersfield...

It's really not a lot of choice if you think about it. I don't expect much improvement in the future, except that we might eventually get some RJs to replace the props to LAX.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 4:54 am

Delta already has a codesharing agreement in place with American Eagle for several markets from LAX. Codeshares begin January 1.

Those of you who say we will never see Delta Connection at LAX again, I suggest you think again. I can't see AE coming into LAX unless it's as a precursor to something else.

Regional feed for 51 daily flights to markets like ATL, JFK, CVG, and MCO? I don't think so.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Delta Expansion West Coast?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:12 am

What routes will DL c/s on with AE? I knew they were going to c/s about a year ago (same with AC on the CP flights), but I have not heard about either one over the past year.

Jeff

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