bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:15 am

how about lie detector for passenger at check-in? That should weed out at least some would-be terrorists... For example, you hand over your ticket & ID, then stick your finger in a sensor... the agent asks you a few questions like "are you carrying any explosives or weapons" and stuff like that...

Of course, we'll never see that happening in our lifetime...
 
bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:18 am

Questions which will not be allowed are:

"did you buy this frequent flyer award ticket from someone?"

"does your wife know you're flying with another female companion?"
(follow up question: do you intend to become a Mile-High Club?)
 
Guest

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:21 am

Think of how long that would take, and how expensive it would be. It is just not practical at this moment in time.
Iain
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:41 am

I guess this would be funny...

I'm a c/i agent. What a fun that must be when a passenger comes to my counter: When he checks in his baggage I'll ask him "Did you know that your baggage allowance is 20kg only?" he'll say "Oh, sorry, no I didn't know that..." *WHOOOOOOP* next thing he will say is "Oh, that's only christmas presents for my family..." *WHOOOOOOOOP* "...on my return flight I will have only one small bag..." *WHOOOOOOOP* "...but look, I don't have any carry-on baggage..." *WHOOOOOOOOP* (the carry-on bags are hidden somewhere behind). Then when I tell him that he will have to pay for excess baggage, he'll say "That's typical for your airline. Last week I had a flight on Lufthansa, and they didn't charge anything..." *WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP*

But then, on the other hand, I might have to face the situation that after he has argued with me about the excess baggage, I might say "I'm sorry you had to pay for excess baggage..." *WHOOOOOOOP* "...I wish you a pleasent flight..." *WHOOOOOOOOOOP*  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Trident
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:49 am

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:58 am

Totally impractical - as well as not being recognised in law in many countries (includuing the UK).
 
Guest

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 5:13 am

lol, nice one Ndebele !
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-

Mon Dec 24, 2001 5:13 am

Come-on, guys, you sound like a bunch of old fogeys: "Not practical", "not recognized in law", "how expensive", ..... and you're all younger than me!!!

If the pioneers of aviation had this attitude, do you think we would be flying today?

Sure, there are a lot of details to work out, and even then this may never work. In fact, most new ideas end up in a dustbin. But at least give it a chance in this forum! No one is committing to invest money in this, it's just a disussion!

More seriously, though, one of the key ingredients in innovation is the search for ideas. In this phase, all ideas are spewed out and recorded as participants think of them, with new ideas built on previous ones. They are not analyzed or disussed at this point. After the fountain of ideas dries up, the group sorts and sifts through them, until something workable can be formulated.

Here's my Christmas message to you... keep an open mind, do not be constrained inside a box!

Cheers,
Pete

"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
AC340
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:32 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:39 am

Delta-Flyer,
They are discussing it. Discussions are about both points of view. They don't think it is a good idea. If you would like to say that you are in favour of it, you are free to do so, but don't forget that people don't always agree with you. There wouldn't be a need for discussions if sides of an issue weren't allowed to present opinions. Random ideas are almost never helpful. Practical ideas should be considered with an open mind, but we must be careful about what ideas are practical and which are not.

Back to the issue at hand. The idea of having lie detectors at the check-in counters is ludicrous as lie detectors are very unreliable. Remember, they rely on many things including heart rate. Nervous people, tend to have elevated heart rates, so no matter what question is asked, they will always appear to be lying. Not only that, but there is the issue of cost, who will run the machines, and who would determine what questions would be asked? Not to mention who would monitor and interpret results? If we are looking for solutions to security problems at airports, we should look at practical, cost effective, easily implementable solutions.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 8:57 am

Are you serious? Let's just say that this were to happen. A polygraph test takes 30 to 45 minutes per person and costs several hundred dollars. The fact that it's reliability is somewhere along the lines of a 1987 Yugo, or any Fiat, you would guarantee nothing but a planeload of psychotic, antisocial people. Of course they would each be paying $1200.00 dollars to fly on an Embraer 120 from LGA to DCA.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 12:50 pm

IMissPiedmont is right. Polygraphs take a VERY long time (to do correctly). We could all go overboard about this (like stripsearching and x-raying people, hey, maybe they need a CAT Scan or MRI too, would that help)? . If a terrorist wants to sneak something on a plane, he's going to find a way. The only hope we have is vigilent flight crews and passengers to stop incidents such as the American flight diverted to Boston this weekend.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:32 pm

You guys just don't get it, do you? Of course polygraphs are very expensive and slow. My first computer 20 years ago was very expensive and slow, too. Then how come I can get a computer today that is 1,000 times faster at 1/10 the (real) cost? Because some people had vision -- and that's what I am trying to suggest to you.

You should be asking probing questions about how this process works, how it can be speeded up, what is the minimum performance required for screening purposes, how do you validate a positive indication, how do you prevent a false negative indication, etc.... Instead, you guys just smugly decide it won't work.

AC340 -- lighten up! Random ideas are almost never helpful? I dare say all great innovations started out as random ideas, although not every random idea turned into a great innovation.

I am truly sorry that you can't see what I am trying to say. I was trying to get you guys to think "out of the box", but you just resist! I was thinking that I may be able to show you how to build on ideas to get innovative solutions.

Cheers,
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:35 pm

The technology just isn't accurate enough...and plus the civil liberties folks would have a field day with this.
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:37 pm

We could check-in a week before the flight and have like a quest house to sleep in !!
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: How About Lie Detector For Passenger At Check-in?

Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:44 pm

Delta-flyer, you can'r speed up the validation proces. Before you're going to ask the question you must know how a person reacts on normal questions. This means posing ay least 10 questions. This takes time and even then the test isn't very reliable.

Another issue is who will be the person judging the output. I hope that you're going to use knowledgeable persons and these persons aren't cheap.

Finally, real terrorists can be trained to fool the polygraph machine and thus you don't prevent these from coming onboard.

Regards
Laurens

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