jfk747
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 12:20 am

AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 5:38 am



American Airlines has fully intergrated TWA in to there system.Now TWA Aircrafts are mixed with AA. Now when you book a very expensive AA First Ticket you get this :


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ryan J. Pearl



rather than this


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Danny Fritsche



it's a shame.
People are getting short changed.

And now AA is becoming a death trap. Bombs on planes, crashes, hijackings. AA is going down enron style. AA should have keeped TWA as a separate airline owned by AMR.
 
RoyalDutch
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 9:51 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 5:44 am

I wouldn't go calling AA a death trap...I think that is unfair. But that is a bummer about the seats.
 
aamd11
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 5:49 am

Its always going to be the same, the national carrier of the USA is always the target. Remember Pan American. That was the largest at the time of Lockerbie, or was seen as the most important anyway, so it naturally became a target. What do you suggest for them? become a small two-bit operation that noone cares about? Because that seems to be the only way to avoid being targeted. The crash was as any other airline crash, once investigated we will realise there were more than one problem / cause of the crash.
We will have to see how it all turns out.
 
jetBlue320
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:01 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:04 am

AA is slowly but surely switching all TWA Seats to be AA Seats. Keep your pants on.
 
jfk747
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 12:20 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:04 am

That's how the american people are viewing AA. " AA ?, no wAAy ". Just like USAIR back in the day. AA is reminding me of ... PAN AM. The biggest and greatest, but one bad year could kill AA.
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:07 am

There's not a whole lot that they can do in the short term about the seats. It would be very expensive for AA to not be flying ALL of TWA's aircraft while they installed new seats. What would the point in buying TWA have been if AA didn't use any of their planes for a little while? I think that AA will update the TWA aircraft as time goes on, one by one. It would be really disappointing to have to sit in one of TWA's first class seats if you were expecting and AA one, but I think soon enough the TWA seats will be gone.
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:42 am

AA all the way!!

Nice try.
I can drive faster than you
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4898
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:46 am

Ummm.... how do you figure?

Those sleeper seats are on AA 777s. Those others are on TWA's planes.

AA is, for the most part, not going to replace a 777 on the, say, DFW-NRT run with a TWA 767-300.

So what is your deal.

And death trap? Uh, no.
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:53 am

As AA737-823 said,
The routes where TWA B767's are flying are not ones where AA would operate an aircraft with the sleeper seats like you pictured. Actually TWA's B767's have a nicer first class than some of AA's B767's.
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 8:42 am

And aren't AA's international B767's configured with 3-classes? The TWA ones are only 2 aren't they?

I suppose my point is that the TW B767's could be used on Hawaii routes where the AA First Class is not up to standard and the TWA ones can't be used on 3-class routes since they don't have 3 classes.

I'm assuming of course that TW B767's don't/didn't have 3 classes. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If the TW B767's did have 3 classes, then why not put them on trans-con service, cos AA 763's with sleeper seats are used on international routes.

The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 8:59 am

TWA's B767's are configured in a two-class arrangement.
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:08 am

I think you could tell which airline it would be operated by if you wanted to purchase a business class ticket. If you wanted a business class ticket and they sold one to you. That means 1 of 2 things-
a) The aircraft is reconfigured
b) it is an AA aircraft.

If they deny you a business class ticket because there isn't business class on the flight. That means it is a TWA aircraft.

If you are flying out of STL, I am not sure if AA has put any of their own widebodies in STL for sched service yet.

rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
baxter
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:55 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:10 am

TWA's TransWorldFirst product is sold as Business Class by AA, rather than as First Class. It is far superior to American's own Business Class product.
 
kjet12
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:33 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:15 am

AA - Doing what we do best.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:41 am

dont get your panties in a wad man, that 1st class AA seat is on the 777, thats one of the nicer seats... that 767 TWA seat is alright... it beats a coach seat.. and for AA being a death trap... its in the hot seat right now, every little move is being monitored... so you will hear about everything, i dont think AA will go down...
Go big or go home
 
railmatt
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 12:48 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 2:16 pm

Last I checked on AA'a website they are not currently offering an international First Class product on TWA's last transatlantic route, STL-LGW. Business Class passengers will enjoy TWA's TransWorld First Cabin with 60" pitch, personal video monitor, leg rests, and so on.
 
FrequentFlyKid
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:04 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:05 pm

JFK747 - You are making an unfair comparison between AA's suites and TWA's first class and by the way, don't jump any conclusions about AA. I mean a death trap? Come on.......
 
FTraveler
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 5:59 am

RE: AA Bad Luck

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:11 pm

AA has had a run of bad luck lately, but I wouldn't attribute it to negligence on the part of management or employees. I hope they survive and thrive. We need strong competition in this country. Look at the poor folks in Hawaii. With the merger of the two dominant carriers, Hawaiian and Aloha, in a few years the cost of inter-island travel per mile will probably be the highest in the world.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:26 pm

Wow...another finalist for the dumbest post of the year...and just in under the wire! Congrats to Jfk747!

AA a deathtrap? I hardly think so.

 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Mon Dec 24, 2001 11:28 pm

Jfk747:

What an ignorant post you have made. All of TWA's aircraft were two-class aircraft. If you knew anything about travel industry booking codes you would know that AA's 'International' First class is in a booking class by itself. There is no way that TWA's product could be substituted.
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 1:00 am

Yea...I gotta agree with AA737-823 (and every other AA defender)...An airline, as a matter of economic survivability must integrate the TWA aircraft into the AA master routing schedule. Further it costs millions of dollars to retrofit a single airplane to make it look and feel like an AA A/C. They now need to apply for an STC from the FAA, and go dsown the engineering road of getting certification on the TWA type aircraft. I'm sure the people in AA's network management group and aircraft scheduling are trying everything possible to sequestor AA aircraft on international routes over TWA aircraft.

First of all, the way AA's 767 F/C cabin is laid out, it would be impossible for the flagshuop suite to be installed. The "conference room" seats, where up to 4 people could sit and chat with each other is designed to be for 2 people to enter from each aisle, and then swivel to see each other. The AA 767 F/C has a 2-1-2 configuration. If you placed a flagship suite DBL on the outboard portion of the aircraft, the window passenger would have no way of getting in or out of the seat. Major egress violation.

Second, the first flagship suite didn't leave the manufacturers plant until roughly summer last year. Due to the complexity of the seat design, the lack of electrical provisioning that most 767's have been originally delivered from Boeing, and the amount of dollars it costs to do a project of this nature, you probably won't see it on an AA767. That doesn't mean it can't get on a 767, but I highly doubt it happened this fast. If there is an AA person on here who can correct me on this, please do so!
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 1:01 am

Sounds as if JFK747 was either fired by AA or rejected as an applicant because he or she couldn't meet its standards. Sour grapes, my friend.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 2:07 am

People-
American is NOT installing the flagship suite on the 767. What they are doing is installing the original 777 seat models onto the 767s. The ones on the 767s don't swivel.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 6:24 am

Blink182...thats a possibility however it would be extremely expensive to do that because they need to modify the seat in order for it to fit into the 767 fuselage. This mod would be extremely expensive since the leg spacing on the two A/C type are completely different. You would need to drill additional holes in the baseframe tubing to re-adjust the legs. Then you would need to shear off the ends of the tubing because the width would be to long to keep a 2x2x2 configuration and maintain FAA mandated aisle widths. After that, the seat back would need to modified to accomodate the new pax width by either shaving the foam underneath the dress covers down to an acceptable width, or worse yet, replacing the current back structure for a narrower one. Finally, you'd need to get certification testing performed on the modified seat and STC the seat on the aircraft. The nice thing about the 767-300ER is that it doesn't require 16G dynamic testing unlike the 777.

No, they probably haven't changed their 767 config, or they are getting new seats with asthetics (dress covers, cushions, end bays) that look like the interim 777 seat, or most likely they are just re-dressing their current design.
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:05 am

I have seen the new First Class seats on the 763. They kept it as a 2-1-2 configuration. However, the seats looked a lot like the original 777 seats. They probably have the modifications(screws, width, etc) of the old 763 seats.

rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: AA Screwing First Class Passnegers

Tue Dec 25, 2001 2:28 pm

heck I can dress up anything to look like that...all i have to do is get the right molds for the endbays and the center console, find some leather and fabric dress covers for the cushioning and asthetics, and I'm all set!

There are 4 different model seats on DL's first class domestic product, but they all look the same! You don't chop up a center double to create a center single seat. The stress risers on tubes would cause reliability issues at half the normal time of where. Further, modifying the seat is extremely labor intensive with relatively no savings on the parts department. Your mod costs would rise to equal that of your new product costs and now you have no warranty on a used product. Not very economically feasible.

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