vafi88
Posts: 2981
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Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:07 am

In Denver International Airport , there are almost no international races and it pisses me off because every time we (Me and my bro) go spotting we never get anything good. The only things we get here is the Lufthansa A340, UAL 747, British Airways 777 along with many 737s which I'm tired of seeing. My question is when will DEN get better content!?!?
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:15 am

Perhaps the airlines have figured that Denver would not support the larger capacity you desire.
 
Guest

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:17 am

You want more content? Go to Progressive Int'l Airport. There you'll see their planes, and the planes from up to three other leading airlines.
 
5280AGL
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 6:50 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:43 am

You act like Denver is this world-class metropolis or something. Frankly, I am surprised Denver gets what it does...It probably wouldn't have any if UA wasn't there. Look at similar or slightly larger cities like Minneapolis, Detroit, and Phoenix, they have less international airlines than Denver, but probably have more of a need (especially Minneapolis).
 
usairways85
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:56 am

yo i hear what your sayin. in philadelphia we get ba 77 and a 744 a day, along with a lufthansa 343 and a airfrance 763. that is it. there are a million usairways flights, all practically the same plane. i few of the other airlines. however no dc-10's not many 767's 777's practically no 757's other than usairways. it sucks
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:59 am

I know man this suck big time. If you spot it's not very cool to get the same stuff every day you are there, it's still cool to spot though!.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
blink182
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:11 am

Geez... guys, airlines aren't going to start service just because a bunch of spotters want to see their planes.

With DEN, be happy with what you have, it could be worse. I don't blame you about being bored with seeing UA shorthauls 24/7. I see the whole AA fleet (except A300) when I go to my airport.

rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:14 am

I still want to see more planes like in Paris or Germany. All of those airports have 747s left and right. Denver only has 2 or 3 a day!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
5280AGL
Posts: 398
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:28 am

Denver does not have the O&D traffic to support a bunch of international 747 flights, if ANY. Denver is not New York, LA, Chicago, or even Miami. I think you have an inflated image of what Denver really is...Denver is a domestic hub. If you want to see more 747s, hop on a flight and head to MIA or LAX.
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:43 am

Blink and 5280AGL said it best.
Denver doesn't support the traffic need plus airlines don't fly places just because some teenage spotters want them to.

I for one as a spotter will say that I love Denver. I spot reg numbers, and each trip through Denver in the past has helped me check off more and more of Great Lakes and Air Wisconsin's fleets as well as United's narrowbodies. What I wouldn't give to be able to check off every single box next to the United narrowbody fleet in JP Airline Fleets (only have about 2/3 of them spotted so far).
 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:44 am

Vafi88,

There are about 5 airlines that have shown interest in EVENTUALLY starting international service to Denver in the near future.

What we will probably see next is NRT service from Denver either by ANA or JAL. Both airlines have expressed great interest in starting service to Denver when the 16,000ft. runway is complete. We should see NRT service in about 2 to 5 years. Maybe earlier.

Air France has said that they would like to start Denver (DEN) service in the future, but right now they have bigger priorities.

But don't expect anything very soon. Be happy with what you have.

Not everyone gets to live near the largest, 10th busiest airport in the world....thats something to be happy about.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
donder10
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:46 am

BA,
how are your airport diagrams coming on?Thanks,Alex
 
Airplanelover
Posts: 318
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:55 am

I live in Pittsburgh and we get allot of RJ's from other Airlines and For International we get USAirways A330's, no 747's or 777's. I dont really care, Im just happy to see any type of plane fly! RJ's and Props are fine with me.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:58 am

Donder10,

I'm working on it slowly. I should have something worth showing in about a week.

Vafi88,

As everyone said, DEN isn't a ORD or JFK. You can't expect too much more. It has about all the European service that it can support. All it can support now is a CDG flight, but nothing else.

What Denver needs now is some Asian service. Don't expect any more from Denver.

Denver is in the Tier 2 catagory which is a catagory that can support some international service to Europe, and a little bit of service to Asia.

Thats about it.

You want to see more international service, then go to ORD or JFK. You'll see just about everything there.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:04 am

Hey guys, don't forget about Air Canada. Maybe not glamorous but still an intl carrier. Several daily A319's to DEN and A319/732/D93 to PHL.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N737MC
Posts: 619
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:05 am

Hey guys, Aaron here.

I live in Denver, and I go spotting every Saturday and Sunday here. I am happy with what Denver has. I have JP Fleets and I do what Jason Does, check off tail numbers... DEN has helped me capture a majority of the fleet and I can't wait till they are all checked off.

Like they say, good things come to people who wait. And to add to BA's list of possible Denver Intl services is VG Airlines which is expressing interest in Non-Stop service from Brussells when they start up, operating the A330-300 model. This is a big welcome if it does come, but until then I am more than satisfied with UAL.......UAL.....UAL....and the other regulars. To make my spotting venture better, I just enjoy every aircraft as if it was the first time I have seen it, or if it were to be retired, no matter the Airline. Also when I take my photos here in DEN, I don't care if I shoot all Uniteds or whatever...they are pleasing.

All I am saying is be thankful for what is there, because if it wasn't you would have nothing, and that is the pits..

My 2 Cents..


Aaron Mandolesi
Denver Spotters Hub
Check for my URL in my profile.
 
N737MC
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:11 am

Also here is some of my latest shots from DEN.


Still interesting to me. Even a couple charters now and then.



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Aaron Mandolesi



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Aaron Mandolesi



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Aaron Mandolesi



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Aaron Mandolesi




Aaron Mandolesi
Denver Spotters Hub
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:12 am

I saw you the other sunday A"Aron ,hehe. Don't get me wrong here guys, I love Denver, but I am a new person to aviation in The US and just wanted to see more because it's not a good thing when you lose all of your beloved Russian Aircraft and it's another drawback if the airport doesn't have certainaircraft there, that's all. Hey, that's great news about the A330 coming here (I've never seen the A330)
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
BA
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:13 am

That's the spirit Aaron.  Big grin

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:21 am

Aaron, how do you get those pictures on A.net? Me and my bro spot about the same place as you do and get the same pictures, but for some reason they only except your pics., our pictures are great, so are yours, but we have a problem scanning them on to the computer and they don't turn out great, but rather good. How do we get the scan prints to turn out great?

Thanks,

Vitaly

Hppy holidays!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
N737MC
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:29 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:28 am

Vafi, Aaron here..


Thats because i don't scan.. I use Adobe Photoshop and take the pics right off of my Digital Camera. I do some fine editing and they look great.. So A.net accepts them.. I use a 5.0 megapixel camera so the quality is of the highest.



Aaron Mandolesi
Denver Spotters Hub
 
Guest

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:32 am

Your scanner probably blows. No offense, and like you said, your pictures are probably decent, but if you have a crab scanner, it doesn't do your work any justice. Get a better one, or go to Kinkos...you might be able to save them to a disk. Either Floppy or Zip.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 10:54 am

We in MEL are kinda lucky in the respect to airlines, except for the Qantas monopoly that seems to just bring in plane after plane with a white kangaroo. VB and the new AN are getting more and more visable , but then you can add in:

British Airways 747
Thai Airways MD-11 , 777
Malaysian 747
Cathay Pacific 777 A340
Qantas 747 767
Air Canada 767
Freedom Air 737
Air New Zealand 747 767 737
Air Vanautu 737
Garuda Indonesia A330
Lauda Air / Austrian 777
United 747
China Southern 777
Emirates 777
Air China 777 747
Vietnam Airlines 767
Olympic A340
Air Pacific 737 767

ciao
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2769
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 10:57 am

and yeah, i was meant to finish that off by saying that MELs market is 3.4 million people, what is Denvers?

ciao
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:17 am

DEN's market is about 2.6/2.7M.
a.
 
BA
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:18 am

IndianicWorld,

Roughly 38 million passengers a year.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2769
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:19 am

ok, thanx mah4546 , merry christmas to everyone.

ciao
 
MAH4546
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:49 am

No prob IndianicWorld, just a side note, but for compartive purposes, if in the US, Melbourne would slot just behind Miami and just before Seattle.
a.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 2:05 pm

Thanx again mah4546 , I have no idea of the US city sizes so thanx man. Didnt know Seattle was so big though?

Melbourne had 15.1 million Pax last year and is Australia's fastest growing airport. Ansett was and is still based in MEL and the former Australian Airlines ( Now absorbed into QF ) was also based in MEL
( Swanston Street ). QF now has a major presence at MEL Tullamarine too.

ciao
 
Gregg
Posts: 313
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:57 pm

I also don't think Denver can support many international flights, esp when UA has good connections from DEN to their international hubs.

Somebody hit on one of the problems, I don't think a fully loaded 747 can take off in DEN until the 16000 foot runway is in place (so the 747 could not get to Asia without a stop). And lets face it, very few flights from north america to europe operate a 747 anymore.
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 10:40 pm

Man, if you think Denver sucks you should try where I live. Waco Tx.

We have your wide selection of C172s and the big dog twins like the C340s and SF340s.

If your were not from Denver you might see your airport in a different light. You get a great mix of Delta 767s and 757s and a good mix of NWA 757s and A320s, not to mention all the different types UAL flies in. And I am sure you know that not so long ago DEN had 4 or 5 747s operated domestically by UAL. Thats pretty cool.

All in all I think Denver is a great airport with a good mix of A/C. But if variety (in paint) is what you want move to LAX or MIA.
 
5280AGL
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 6:50 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:42 pm

DEN is the type of market that would support smaller international a/c types. Perfect for 767s and eventually the 753 (if it catches on), but then aircraft range is questionable. 747s and A330/A340s are too much for this market, unless it is 1x weekly service, but even then it is a stretch (remember Korean's attempt?). Lets face it, Denver is truly in a BAD geographic location for international service. Totally isolated from other large cities, the closest being Salt Lake City, Omaha, and Albuquerque, so not many passengers outside of the Denver & C Springs metro areas would use the service. Also, the majority of international travelers here connect in ORD for European flights and LAX for Asian ones.
 
usairways85
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 1:48 am

anyone have any opinions on philadelphia? i think it is too dominated by usairways. although i doubt to see any new international airlines any time soon, i think philly has a lot of internationl potential in the long run.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 2:27 am

I agree with you USairways85. Phili has a lot of potential although I'm not sure what percentage of slots that USAir has.
Alex
 
blink182
Posts: 5269
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 3:13 am

Denver is also surrounded geographically by several major cities already. LAX,SFO,ORD, and to an extent, DFW and IAH, although those are probably a little far. PHX a little bit.

DEN isn't going to be an international hub by any means, like United had orignally planned on(i believe). I think it could support a few 767 flights to major european cities though.

rgds,
blink182

Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 1:04 pm

If you are out there early enough in February on those saturdays and sundays, you will see the UA arrival from Honolulu...thats almost and international!  Smile
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 1:15 pm

Hello,

You think you have it bad, well come to EIKY (KIR/Kerry) in Ireland. What do we get? Well 1 Ryanair B737-200 and a few Aer Arann ATRs a day.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 2:29 pm

really what do you expect in DEN? It's not a huge city or anything. Well you do have that United 757 that goes to Seattle and then there's a plane change and its a 777 SEA-NRT-BKK, does that count as an international? But really i think UA out of DEN and DL out of SLC could use 767s to London for sure.

twa902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
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RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Wed Dec 26, 2001 2:39 pm

If anything, BOS needs an Asian service.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 9:24 am

Blink182,

United has shown interest only to start LHR service. Other than that, they want to turn Denver into an intercontinental hub serving east and west in the North American continent.

While Denver is no Chicago or New York, British Airways' and Lufthansa's service have proven that Denver is a potential market.

I've read in many articles that British Airways' and Lufthansa's service to Denver is one of there best in the North American route network. Infact, before 9/11, Lufthansa was considering upgrading the flight to 744 during some months of the year. British Airway's and Lufthansa's flights out of Denver usually go out very full.

My 4 British Airways and 1 Lufthansa flight out of Denver were all packed.

Denver can support some non-stop flights to major European cities and some Asian cities.

Right now, Denver only has non-stop service to London and Frankfurt. There's demand for a daily CDG flight on either a 767 or A330/A340/777 and an NRT flight three-weekly on a 777.

Once the 16,000ft. runway is complete expect NRT service from Denver either by ANA or JAL (most likely ANA).

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:43 am

United's reluctance is what keeps DEN from trans-Atlantic service. They don't want to fly to LGW, so DEN-LON flights are not happening. DEN-CDG has potential, but only if UA operated it. DEN-NRT easily has the potential on United and possibly UA-codeshare partner ANA. Korean Air, Martinair, and LTU have all flown to DEN in the past few years. DEN is one of five launch cities for bmi's London-US flights (along with ORD, MIA, IAD, and SEA), but, the problem is, first bmi needs to find a way to fly LHR-US and then away around flying DEN-LHR, so it will not be easy.
a.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:47 am

Just read in the Dec 21 airwaysnews online that Virgin Atlantic has applied for LGW-DEN authority.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:50 am

Where is it? Is it in the A.net news section???

Thanks a lot!!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:55 am

Re Mah4546:

I don't think that ANA would consider doing a non-stop to DEN since they already have UA's connections through LAX, SEA, and SFO. To do a non-stop to a secondary hub when there are three other airports already served in the region would be a wasteful practice. If this could happen, it would most likely be an ANA number on a UA flight to DEN. Am I too far off base here?
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:56 am

Air France was considering servicing DEN at one stage, but I thought they came to the conclusion that it wasnt profitable. Maybe as you said, it would be a goer if UA operated the flight but Im still not sure.

As for Virgin Atlantic, they are struggling and the best thing for them to do is to look at South America, not North America at the moment. Maybe Africa should be a target too.

bmi are another that is unable to get a footing into the market in the US so far, and I see them maybe adding another couple of destinations in the US but I dont think DEN will be a serious destination. What about a MAN-DEN service? How do you think that would work?

ANA was considering serving DEN too, but are unwilling to commit to such a service without more incentives.

The really sad part about this situation is that DEN is offering alot of money to airlines just to fly there, and yet they are unwilling to do so. Must say something about the market.
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:33 pm

TWA902fly...

You must have never been to Denver if you believe it is not a big city or anything. With a population of Denver city alone being around 600,000, it ranks it in the top 25 US cities. Certainly no Chicago or New York, but it is a good size city!


Mah4546...

Why would UA have to fly to LGW? I am positive that won't be happening anytime soon. The fact is, UA can go right into LHR if they wanted to. Plans are actually on the table for it. We were watching the FRA service to determine its viability. A 767-300 was an option for next summer. CDG was never looked at and it would be left to AF in any case.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:40 pm

JC5280, have you not heard of Bermuda II? DEN cannot have LHR flights. Only airports that can have LHR flights are JFK, EWR, BOS, ORD, SFO, SEA, MIA, LAX, DTW, PHL, and IAD and surrounding airports (like BWI, FLL, and OAK). bmi's launch destination for LHR-US service do include DEN, but not only will they have to find away to be able to fly LHR-US, they will also have to figure out how to fly LHR-DEN (the other four launch cities - ORD, IAD, MIA, SEA - can have LHR service). I don't think VS will fly to DEN any time soon. Not thier type of market, maybe in the future.
a.
 
AM744
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Denver's Low Content In Airport!

Sun Dec 30, 2001 2:38 pm

Mexicana is another intl carrier at DEN

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