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US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:22 am

Has FAA released a notice that all the flights within US and to/from US' international flights requires passengers to take off their shows for security checks?
 
silverfox
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Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:32 am

i had to do it at DTW on Oct 15 on BA202.
 
fly_emirates
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 11:22 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:34 am

It might seem rudicolous to some people but after the AA incident! it is necessary. i wil be more than happy to do that
 
NZ767
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:50 am

The thing is, you can hide explosives ANYWHERE!
A piece of paper you're carrying can be impregnated with explosives.
So, what next??
Strip search all pax??

Mike  Smile

PS: Does security wear gas masks when everyone takes off their shoes?? lol.
 
B-707
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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:07 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 10:47 am

A co-worker returned from US yesterday and was ordered to take his shoes off to be inspected (or scanned, I wasn't really listening to him) He also said that everybody had to take their shoes off before boarding the plane for inspection by the security.
 
CX Flyboy
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Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:50 am

I had to do it and I was in full uniform. It's stupid really. What are they preventing me from doing? Crashing an airliner? I am flying the bloody thing! I don't need explosives to crash it! I can just fly it into the ground if I was demented enough. Idiots.
 
Olympic A-340
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Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2000 3:28 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Tue Dec 25, 2001 12:39 pm

I am ALL for security...but at this rate, by next year, we will be stripping down to our "bare minimums." Sure security is foremost, but instead of checking our shoes, they should get cracking on our luggage or something. It seems much more probable that a bomb or other device could be hidden in baggage or something of the sort. I mean what it looks like to me, is that the FAA/airports care more about checking a nun's shoes and handbag rather than a person's luggage.
 
standby87
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 8:53 pm

I started 2001 with high hopes, I ended it having to remove my boots at Newark before boarding the 31Dec SR flight back to Zürich.
What a world we live in these days.

Don't know if anyone will read this, but whilst I was in New York, I went along to "Ground Zero". Very touched by the United staff memorial signed by different airlines' crews. Very very sad and moving.
I had doubts about whether I should go to the site, but I feel better for paying my respects and leaving a personal message and an item there.

I said those words to one of the helpers there and she told me "..don't forget the fire-fighters and the rescue services, they're the real heroes". I nearly had a word with her about that. I spend half my life flying and for me the real terror was on board those aircraft, for the crews and the passengers. Fire-fighters choose to risk their lives everyday. Passengers and crews did not choose to be hijacked by fanatics whose mindsets are already in the next life.

Anyway, let's hope for a better 2002, but never forget what happened on September 11th.
 
FutureFO
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:27 pm

There is a Security deal out from the FAA that says that during the random screenings that those pax are the ones who are required to remove their shoes. Also Pax that are selected going via security are also required to remove their shoes as well.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:51 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:51 pm

Then a guy hides explosives in his socks, then his shirt, then in his pants, then in his underwear. I agree with NZ767.............. do we need to strip search passengers?
 
n949wp
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 3:45 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:30 pm

If this goes on, US airlines will soon be losing hundreds of thousands of additional passengers who aren't scared to fly, but are just too damn sick of the hassle and public embarrassment they have to go through. People will be more than willing to take longer drives to their destinations rather than being treated like a criminal everytime they fly.

Looks like a windfall for the car rental companies though!!

'949
 
gsoflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:35 pm

You know,

Regardless of the security of everything, everyone has certain rights, especially in the United States. They are making people remove their shoes here. So what happens next.

He could have put that stuff in a carry-on. Would that mean no more carryons?

Or he could have tapped it to his chest or stuck it in a body cavity? Would we then see strip searches?

I for one am getting stretched to the limit with this type of attitude and these types of regulations. And I for one, will not be flying ANY time in the near future. If I have to go long distance, I'll drive or ride the train.

Cheers.
 
Guest

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:45 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but at LAX don't they have these metal detectors/x-rays that can see through your clothes and show on a screen {not as if you were totally naked and being directly looked at mind you} any bombs etc that may be strapped to your chest, etc? Don't they just show the matter that makes up the explosive device because of the density?
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 11:32 pm

Don't know if anyone will read this, but whilst I was in New York, I went along to "Ground Zero". Very touched by the United staff memorial signed by different airlines' crews.
I said those words to one of the helpers there and she told me "..don't forget the fire-fighters and the rescue services, they're the real heroes". I nearly had a word with her about that. I spend half my life flying and for me the real terror was on board those aircraft, for the crews and the passengers. Fire-fighters choose to risk their lives everyday.


Moreover, the firefighters and other rescuers were not aware of the danger until too late, as no one had any inkling that the towers would collapse. Nothing like that had ever happened before anywhere in the world. Even the FDNY's top commanders set up the command post adjacent to the towers, not realizing that they'd be in mortal danger (in fact, most of them died).
If it's any consolation, it's unlikely that the passengers and crew aboard the airliners knew what was going to happen.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
nonrevman
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:39 am

If this goes on, US airlines will soon be losing hundreds of thousands of additional passengers who aren't scared to fly, but are just too damn sick of the hassle and public embarrassment they have to go through. People will be more than willing to take longer drives to their destinations rather than being treated like a criminal everytime they fly.


N949WP,

I think you hit the nail right on the head. This is going to especially impact short haul flights and markets. Transcons and longer flights will not take as big a hit since people probably have little choice but to fly on them. Removing shoes is annoying, because it creates a logjam at security and there are no benches or anything to put them back on after finally getting through. As an employee, I am desperately sick of it. They make you take your shoes off if you set off the metal detector. No matter how hard I try to get the metal off of my body, something like the shoestring holes in my shoes sets it off. There really needs to be a separate employee entrance. It is such a waste, because they know who we are. For many passengers, I think the last straw that breaks the camel's back is coming soon. Maybe, someone will hide something in their crotch. That will be a dark day for aviation.

 
5280AGL
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 6:50 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:52 am

I have seen mixed feelings about the whole security issue. I have had many opportunities to talk with passengers before and after flights. I would say the public is pretty much at a 50/50 split when it comes to these new security measures. The seasoned, veteran, business travellers absolutely hate it, since they have to deal with it more often.

One of the more vivid conversations I had was with a pregnant woman. She was absolutely livid about the security. Apparently, she had to wait over an hour at the checkpoint line, they made her take off her shoes, which is nearly impossible for a pregnant woman to do while standing up, but they insisted. After she got to the gate, she got searched again, this time they just dumped her carryon (which mainly consisted of personal and "feminine" items) on one of the holding area chairs in front of everyone and started rummaging through it. Yeah, I would a little embarrased to....

I really feel this needs to stop, but it will only stop once the American people speak up against it. The government will continue as long as they know they can get away with it. If the security must remain as is, then lets at least profile the right people! Pregnant women, children, the elderly, and the handicapped seemed to be the ones getting hassled all the time...For gods sake, the last time I checked, the only people blowing up our planes and buildings were middle easterners!
 
ogseminole
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 8:35 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:20 am

5280AGL,
Your last paragraph says it all. In the US, we are screening old ladies and people in wheelchairs.
It was 19 young Arab/Muslim camel humpers who started all this cr@p. Profile! Profile! Profile!

There is a growing sentiment by flight crews to stage a one day industry wide strike to expose the FAA and airlines management reluctance to update and improve present day security. (or lack there-of).

Remember, rampers still have aircraft access without any form of security check when they walk on airport property. To my knowledge, little if any checked baggage is being searched for explosives.

Today's present state of security is complete and total eyewash.
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:29 am

Yes here at AMS all pax on US airlines must take off their shoes.

What is the embarrassment? I've had to take off my shoes at some random check by the Venezuelan Narcotics Brigade (probably my large boots had drawn their attention). I had to take off my shoes just before boarding, but as long as you're not the only one it's not an embarressment.

Those who think you need very expensive equipement to check whether or not you have explosives in your shoes are wrong. The Venezuelean Narco Brigade does the check very efficient with very inexpensive tools. They make a very small hole in your shoe and stick something in it. From that they can determine whether or not you've something in your shoe.

Regards
Laurens
 
Likesplanes
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 3:58 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:32 am

There can never be too much security; not when lives are at stake.
 
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:33 am

What happened to these supposed 'bomb sniffers' we heard about last year - the machines that can detetct plastic explosives. Would it not be easier, not to mention significantly more efficient, and probably more effective, to have passengers walk through one of these at the same time they walk through the metal detectors.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
nonrevman
Posts: 1258
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RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:48 am

There can never be too much security; not when lives are at stake.

There can be too much security if it is not necessary. Almost every day, I see elderly people, disabled people, and employees getting the "random" treatment while less savory looking passengers go right on through.

As for the removal of shoes, it is worthless. If I did rig my shoe with C4, how is it going to be detected in an X-Ray machine? Wouldn't it be just as opaque as a shoe sole? How about this for an idea--Have explosive detecting dogs replace the ornaments known as the National Guard. The dogs can sniff each person in a matter of seconds.

Shoes may not seem like a big deal to some people, but I think security is going to be more misguided than it already is as new incidents occur.

As for the real security problems, think about places such as air cargo, ramp access points, and general aviation. I drove by one place the other day and saw a ramp access gate open with the guard nowhere in sight. Meanwhile, Granny is upstairs taking off her belt and shoes and asking some guy who does not even speak English why she has to do this. We are in a lot of trouble.

 
ryu2
Posts: 1545
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 5:52 am

I had to take off shoes when flying back to LAX, from TPE three days ago, but NOT when flying on UA LAX-SFO a few hours later.

Hmmm.
 
User avatar
boeingrulz
Posts: 521
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RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 6:29 am

Dogs, more dogs, sniffing dogs, gun tot'in dogs... thats what we need.

The high tech sniffers are too expensive, apparently it is prohibatively expensive to put every passenger though one of those things.

Dogs, man's best friend, cuddly companions... and now they're packing.

Carolyn
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 6:56 am

About six months ago there was a thread on this forum about traveling barefoot. There were very mixed oppinions about that. But I think that most posts were against acceptance of barefoot traveling.

Maybe one day we all must travel barefoot?

About profiling: Some fifteen years back I was exposed to some profiling. I was was going to leave from Tel Aviv on an ElAl plane. I was a little late for check-in - hired car turn in took a little longer than expected caused by a minor parking dent, there were some forms to fill in and a small extra bill to pay.

So I was all way in the back of the two hours security queue. And I could easily calculate that with present speed of the queue I would not be on my plane.

The miracle happened. A large group of elderly typically Jewish people (in orthodox dress) lined up behind me. I didn't understand one word of their Hebrew talk, but on my request they told me that they would be on the same plane as me, and they were absolutely confident that we would be on the plane.

Then I almost slept in the queue for 15 minutes. And then I woke up discovering that once again I was at the extreme back of the queue.

I did manage to be on the plane, but only seconds before the door was closed. My "Jewish" friends, they were there. They had already been sitting there for an hour or so.

Those Israeli security people did the right thing. They treated potential terrorists - people who looked like me - very carefully. They spent all the time they had on us. And let the other people through the "back door".

They have been dealing with this for decades. They know what they are doing.

Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
L1011
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RE: US Flight Pax Takeoff Shoes For Security?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 7:27 am

I was on a nine-flight itinerary during the last few days, and the only flight in which I had to remove my shoes was at Singapore while preparing to board a United flight to Tokyo.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B