planelover
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:22 pm

Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 3:58 am

Hey all,
Is it time for Air Force One to be retired? Air Force One is probably among the most maintained planes in the world. However, it is getting high in the years. I think the US needs to start thinking about a new plane for the President. Maybe like one of the new 747 extended range models? Is this an unpracticle suggeston?
Another little tid-bit. I heard that an US Air Force C141 follows Air Force One wherever it goes. It carries the Presidents Limo, secret service vihicles, along with enough amunition for a small army. Is this true? Wouldn't surprise me.
Let me know what you all think.
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:03 am

They definitely need the 747-400 because it's newer and way cooler looking. Plus they need a new paintjob with like differentmarkings on the 744, That light blue paint doesn't go along with the 742's design...
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
AC320
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RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:04 am

This topic's been delt with many times before. While the presidential 747's are getting up there in terms of years, that's a moot point as with airframes, it's the numbers of cycles that really counts. Think about it, these are commercial airframes that are heavily modified for private use. They are designed to handle thousands of rounds of pressurization and de-pressurization during flights. However, these aircraft are obviously not as heavily used as their commercial brothers, so in terms of the number of cycles, these aircraft have just gone for a run around the block, still many years left in them easily.
fuddle duddle
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:06 am

High in the years? The current Air Force One has only been in service since around 1990 (plus or minus a year or two). Not very old at all...
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:09 am

No way does it need to be replaced.It also has 744 engines and a digital cockpit I think.
Alex
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13403
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RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:14 am

By the way, there are actually TWO B-747s designed to be used as Air Force One, which technically ANY aircraft carrying the President would be called.

reprinted from www.boeing.com


Air Force One is a Boeing 747-200B aircraft that was extensively modified to meet presidential requirements. The original paint scheme was designed at the request of President John F. Kennedy, who wanted the airplane to reflect the spirit of the national character. He also directed that the words "United States of America" appear prominently on the fuselage, and that the U.S. flag be painted on the vertical stabilizer.
Boeing delivered two uniquely modified Boeing 747-200 Air Force One presidential aircraft in 1990. The airplanes replaced the Boeing 707-320 airframe that had served the nation's chief executives for nearly 30 years.

U.S. presidents have flown on Boeing aircraft since 1943, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt flew to Casablanca aboard a Boeing model 314 Clipper. In 1962, U.S. presidents were provided modern jet transportation with the introduction of the Boeing model 707-320B, which was to become known by the radio call sign used when the president is aboard: Air Force One. In all, seven presidents were served by the 707-320B.

Today, the chief executive flies aboard a modified 747-200B, the newest and largest presidential airplane. The 747 is ideally suited to support the travel requirements of the president.

The Flying "Oval Office"
The 747s were built at the Boeing Everett, Wash., facility, then flown to the company's Wichita, Kan., facility for configuration as Air Force One. The aircraft were extensively modified to meet presidential requirements. The flying "Oval Office" has 4,000 square feet of interior floor space, which features a conference/dining room, quarters for the president and the first lady, and an office area for senior staff members.

Another office can be converted into a medical facility when required. There are work and rest areas for the presidential staff, media representatives and Air Force crews; two galleys are each capable of providing food for 50 people.

Lower lobes of the aircraft were modified to accommodate the airplane's self-contained air stairs and interior stairways that lead to the main deck. The lower lobes also feature unique storage to accommodate substantial amounts of food (up to 2,000 meals) and mission-related equipment. In addition, this area contains an automated self-contained cargo loader and additional electronics equipment.

About 238 miles of wire wind through the presidential carrier. This is more than twice the wiring found in a typical 747. Wiring is shielded to protect it from electromagnetic pulse, which is generated by a thermonuclear blast and interferes with electronic signals.

The airplane's mission communications system provides worldwide transmission and reception of normal and secure communications. The equipment includes 85 telephones, as well as multi-frequency radios for air-to-air, air-to-ground and satellite communications.

Air Force One provides longer range for presidential travel and can be self-sufficient at airports around the world. Modified for aerial refueling, it has virtually unlimited range.

Up to 70 passengers and 23 crew members can be accommodated, including necessary ground crew required to travel with the plane.

The 89th Presidential Airlift Group at Andrew Air Force Base, Md., is responsible for Air Force One, which is housed in a 140,000-square-foot maintenance and support complex at Andrews Air Force Base.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
b767-400er
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 11:07 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:21 am

Donder10:

Right on the first, wrong on the other. Both VC-25a have GE CF6-C2B1, but they have the 747 classic's cockpit. Here's a sites about them.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/af1/index.htm

Tony,
B767-400er

 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:28 am

These two VC-25's are just young pups in the 89th airlift wing. It is hard to believe that they have been around for ten years already, though. But as AC320 stated, these aircraft have a fraction of the cycles that thier conterparts do. As far as looks? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think it's one of the most attractive airplanes there is. Although I wouldn't mind seeing a 744ER in "Air Force One" colors.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
bobcat
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RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:30 am

You do realize the taxpayers are actually footing the bill for a couple of new 747-400 to replace the current Air Force One
747-200s....

While it may be true that the current
Air Force One twins are only about 10 years old, they are used heavily in extreme short-haul flights... many are not even over 200 miles...

I think the president of the USA really deserves a supersonic Air Force One...
The Queen does not have her own Royal Air Force One, but she ususally flies on the Concorde. It makes a much bigger impression on the countries she is visiting...
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:33 am

Thanks for clearing it up Tony,
ALex
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
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RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 6:03 am

Actually, the Queen usually flies on a RAF VIP Bae 146-(100?) when in europe, and when going anywhere out of range, usually flies a BA A230 or other commercial jet. Although, on her recent trip to Australia, she used a Qantas 747-400 that had its first and business class sections renovated for her and her enteragues' use (at a cost of about 2 million dollars) .
I'm sure all of that was totally worth is becuase she did get in some fine waving and was in Canberra to accept an antique Australian book. As we all know, no one else could possibly do her job.

Regards from a true republican.

Qforever
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
jetBlue320
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:01 pm

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 6:21 am

How many times do I have to say this.... AIR FORCE ONE HAS STANDARD 747-200 FLIGHT DECKS. THEY DO NOT HAVE GLASS COCKPITS. THEY DO NOT. I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THEM MYSELF AND I KNOW THEY DO NOT HAVE GLASS COCKPITS. THE E4Bs ARE THE SAME. STANDARD FLIGHT DECKS.
 
Jason Seiple
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 6:56 am

Wow Jacob, no need to be rude.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 7:10 am

I've heard the Air Force has a glass cockpit ? Is this true ?

just kidding  Smile
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 7:15 am

Bobcat,

Maybe not supersonic, but how about sonic criusing? Now that would be cool.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 7:19 am

Jetblue320,
according to your profile you have been a member for 35 days so I doubt you have informed people that AirForce1 has standard cockpits too many times.Take a chill pill
 
Lufthansa404
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:21 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:22 am

lol I very much like the word chill-pill  Smile

About Airforcone: Do they have parachuts on board?

Cheers,

Jan
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:24 am

Jan, I think they had in the movie with the same name anyway Big grin

 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:28 am

The Queen usually flies on Concorde?
Yeah right!!

She (and other senior members of the royal family) has two BAE 146 aircraft at her disposal even for flights to far flung destinations.
I have seen them here in NZ during past royal tours.
Although in recent years, as a cost cutting measure, she has tended to use commercial flights with the first class area heavily modified for her use.
He last tour here, she came on an Air NZ 747-400, the first ever time she had used commercial.
This was featured on an episode of "Airport".

Mike  Smile
 
jetBlue320
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:01 pm

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:41 am

Yeah Donder10, Before this name I was Critter592. I changed it. Check your files. I made a post about it a while back. I know about the VC25A
 
SkyGuy11
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:09 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 11:35 am

Quote from Bobcat:
I think the president of the USA really deserves a supersonic Air Force One...

That'd be cool but what about sonic booms? Plus, the Concorde does not have the range required. Also, they are inefficient.
.
 
Todd
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 10:25 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 6:19 pm

Lufthansa404,

I believe there are two escape pods on board. One to the aft for the President and one at the front for the pilots. The one in the rear drops through the floor of the plane. I don't remember about the crew pod. AF1 also has flares, chaffs and ECM jamming.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:19 pm

Escape pods??
Someone's been watching too many movies!!
 
Guest

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:31 am

The current Air Force One 747-200s are not old aircraft. They were delivered in the late 80s when George Bush Sr. was President. It has all of the up to date systems from the current 747-400 including the GE CF6-80C engines.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:45 am

Do they really need glass cockpits? What on earth for? Fly through a radiation cloud and the CRT screens could go haywire! *kidding* Anyway, the AF1 can go up to 72hrs non stop with In Flight Refuelling under normal conditions, of course more if the situation arises.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:58 am

In the early 80's, a 747SP was offered as an AF1, but not taken up.
The current AF1's have many years of life left, due to superb maint. and low cycles compared to a standard airline 747.
I thought that the 89th wings 757's were now used for many short-haul flights, depends on the size of the entourage I suppose.
As for Concorde, the Queen last used one on a US tour in 1991, with a VIP mod. in the front cabin.
Prime Ministers since 1976 have used Concorde, Jim Callaghan once, Thatcher once, John Major once and Tony Blair three times, (good for him!)
Actually Skyguy11, at Mach 2 50,000+ ft Concorde is very efficent, (engine thermal efficency of 42%), but certainly not at subsonic speeds!
 
jetBlue320
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:01 pm

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:03 am

Yes, The VC25A has all 744 Systems... EXCEPT THE FLIGHT DECK!!!!!!!! Which is a Classic 742 Flight Deck. It does have GE CF6-80 Engines. I think people have been watching the movie AIR FORCE ONE too much. Because it does not have a glass cockpit. Sorry, But it doesn't
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Air Force One: Is It Time To Retire?

Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:16 am

I know of THREE cases where Hollywood has used a glass cockpit to portray a 747 "Classic"

-Air Force One with Harrison Ford
-Executive Decision with Kurt Russell
-Turbulence with Ray Liota

"Executive Decision" is funnyest...there's a huge bookshelf behind the FO's seat rest with a manual on how to fly the plane among the literature...

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